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> How-To: Energy boost mixing
How-To: Energy boost mixing
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
02-05-2007
Editor's note: We're going to make this a sticky topic because it benefits many DJs.
Overview
"Energy boost mixing" is a great technique to create energy on your dance floor.
How-To
Here is how to use it: Detect the key of your current song, and pick the next song to be 1 or 2 semitones above it.
If you're in C Minor, your next key should be D-flat Minor (+1 semitone) or D Minor (+2 semitones). Take a look at the image above. The rule is always the same, just go "right" on the piano from your original key.
The effect is really interesting: Energy on the dancefloor will rise every time. It doesn't work with every song, but most of the time it can create a pleasant effect.
Does this translate to Camelot numbers?
Yes. To go up one semitone, add 7 to your current Camelot number. If you're in E-flat Minor (2A), add 7 and you'll be in E Minor (9A).
To go up two semitones, just add 2 to your current Camelot number. If you're in C Minor (5A), add 2 and you'll get D Minor (7A). Play your next tune in 7A, and you'll experience an energy boost mix.
Who uses it?
I've heard Sasha and Armin Van Buuren use this technique many times. I personally love mixing +2 semitones since it does not clash as much as mixing +1 semitone. Every DJ should try this mix: The effect is really interesting.
Yakov
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Mentos
12-19-2006
I assume the same rules apply here as for modulation mixing in that basslines and melodies should be kept separate? Just wanted to clarify it .
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
12-19-2006
Hi,
That's right, it's better not to overlay melodies in modulation mixing.
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Hyperion
12-22-2006
Hi Yakov
Thanks for the information. I guess my question also relates to modulation mixing. The examples given using the Camelot system always us the numbers that end in "A" (e.g. go up two semitones from 2A to 7A). How about the rules to do with numbers that end in "B"? Does energy boost mixing also work with 2B to 7B, for example?
Also, is there somewhere I can look for further techniques? For example, how do you effectively slow the dance floor down if your crowd as been dancing manically for a couple of hours?
Thanks
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Alex D
12-22-2006
Common sense would indicate that it would be plausible to mix-down by one semitone, eg. from 9A to 2A...Is this a reasonable assumption?
Why or why not?
~Alex D
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
12-22-2006
Hi,
The examples given using the Camelot system always us the numbers that end in "A" (e.g. go up two semitones from 2A to 7A). How about the rules to do with numbers that end in "B"? Does energy boost mixing also work with 2B to 7B, for example?
Absolutely, the same rules apply. We usually use "A" for examples because Minor scale is more common in dance music. Every tutorial described here will work with "B" as well, such as in your 2B to 7B example. (technically, two semitones would be 2B to 4B... Just add 2).
Also, is there somewhere I can look for further techniques? For example, how do you effectively slow the dance floor down if your crowd as been dancing manically for a couple of hours?
I can write a new "How-To" topic on this subject :) Thanks for the tip.
Common sense would indicate that it would be plausible to mix-down by one semitone, eg. from 9A to 2A...Is this a reasonable assumption?
This is a reasonable assumption, and it actually drops the energy level. This directly relates to the post above. If you want to slow the dance floor down, mix -1 semitone or -2 semitones in your DJ set.
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Hyperion
12-24-2006
technically, two semitones would be 2B to 4B
lol - of course, I do read what you write, honestly! :-)
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Darren
12-27-2006
I under stand the process of moving to the right and going from 1 upwards to 5 but in the scale of 1 to 12 using the camelot system which is the lower end higher end of the scale i.e. where should you start your sets??
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
12-27-2006
Hi Darren,
The Camelot scale is circular. If you're in #12, you can go to #11 or #1. It's just like a clock, and you can go clock-wise and counter clock-wise.
My favorite place to start is 7A. I would then progress into 8A, 9A and 10A. I have a lot of good tech house tunes in 10A and 11A, and I can mash them up live. From there, it depends on the crowd.
There is no "best place" to start. It just depends on your music and what songs you like to play first :)
Everyone, what is your favorite starting song and key? Any particular tunes that get you in the mood to DJ?
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DJKwon
12-28-2006
Everyone, what is your favorite starting song and key? Any particular tunes that get you in the mood to DJ?
I can't pick just one =)
So 3A, 10A and 11B are my favourites!
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
12-28-2006
What tunes do you like in those keys? My favorite 10A is "Axwell - Feel The Vibe", classic House song.
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Darren
12-28-2006
I like a lot of tracks around 5 or 6
Blaze - Most Precious Love
Mylo in your arms (Den Zchuzen mix)
Gadjo - So Many Times
Bootyluv - Boogie 2 Nite (Seamus Haji)
Its usually were I start my sets and then take it up or down from there.
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Joe Optic
01-01-2007
to get from 2a to 9a how much do you increase your bpm by.Thanks
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-01-2007
Hi,
Increase your BPM by exactly 6%, and you'll go from 2A to 9A.
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Joe Optic
01-02-2007
what is 6%, is it for example;138bpm-146bpm
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DJDonEsteban
01-02-2007
Joe,
Yes, 138bpm increased by 6% is 146bpm. Keep in mind the reason 6% is so important, changing the pitch 6% changes the key of a song by 1-semitone (or a half-step).
Increasing the tempo by 6% is calculated by multiplying the starting tempo by 1.06: (138 x 1.06 = 146)
A semitone change is simply moving to the next note on a piano, in either direction (left or right). See Yakov's example at the start of this thread.
To relate this to the Camelot chart, it's the same as moving clock-wise 7 times. For example, 2A (Ebm) moved 7 is 9A (Em).
This also works in the opposite direction, in our example decreasing the pitch by -6% lowers the tempo form 138bpm to 130bpm and the key from 2A (Ebm) to 7A (Dm), that is moving counter clock-wise on the Camelot chart.
To calculate lowing the tempo by 6%: divide the starting tempo by 1.06: (138 / 1.06 = 130) or (138 x 0.943 = 130). Either way gives the same results.
Hope this helps.
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Joe Optic
01-02-2007
thanks for the help,I understand so for instance an increase from 138bpm to say 142bpm would be an increase of 3% ranging from key 2a to 5a
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-02-2007
thanks for the help,I understand so for instance an increase from 138bpm to say 142bpm would be an increase of 3% ranging from key 2a to 5a
That's almost right. When you go from 2A to 9A, you're actually in-between two keys (2A and 9A). It's not the same as being in 5A.
It's kind of a weird concept, but look at the piano image again. If you're half-way between two keys, you're not in a different key (5a - C Minor), but rather between 2A (E-Flat Minor) and 9A (E Minor).
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DJDonEsteban
01-02-2007
Joe,
You’re correct regarding the tempo change, 138bpm raised 3% is 142bpm.
But 2A (Ebm) raised 3% is not 5A (Cm). It is right in between the notes Ebm and Em. Refer to the piano diagram above.
The table below shows 12 notes from a piano and the corresponding Camelot values. (The notes with b are flats, black keys, with the others being the white keys).
The Camelot chart is not in the same order as the notes on a piano.
For example, below find Ebm, notice Em is right after it (a black key then white one). In a musical since this is equivalent to a 6% pitch increase or 1-semitone up.
But on the Camelot chart, a 6% increase (1-semitone) is 7 places clock-wise.
Cm 05A
Dbm 12A
Dm 07A
Ebm 02A
Em 09A
Fm 04A
Gbm 11A
Gm 06A
Abm 01A
Am 08A
Bbm 03A
Bm 10A
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ashley m
01-03-2007
There seems to be a hell of a lot of tracks in 8A (A minor) in my collection (in all generes). This would be a good place (8A) as a mid point to a set I find you can easily work your way into it & out of it again in.
Will that energy boost work the same the otherway around minus 7 camelot steps (or will that have the opposite effect - a sort of downer)
Plus whats it like when using the kills to swap bass lines does it work well or best sticking to the beat sections its just that I don't like to plan things too much it can sound a bit robotic / computerised I do phrase it up though.
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-09-2007
Ashley, I missed your question before: You're right, mixing -7 on the Camelot wheel has a downer effect. Same thing with -2.
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MikeVenezia
01-16-2007
Hi ashley,
"There seems to be a hell of a lot of tracks in 8A (A minor) in my collection (in all generes)."
Wanna know why? 'A minor' is all of the white keys on the piano! Very easy key to write/play in.
It's the "same" (actually called the 'relative') key as 'C major', you might notice. But as was mentioned by someone earlier, minor keys are far more prominent in dance music...
Technically, the version of the key of A minor that has all of the white keys in it is actually the 'natural' minor version of the key, as there are actually 3 main minor scales for every minor key, but as I'm typing this I realize this might be too much theory for this discussion board.
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-16-2007
Mike, there is no such thing as "too much theory". Many DJs here produce as well (4 Strings, Shane 54, and many others).
Any production/composition tips are very useful.
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MikeVenezia
01-16-2007
Thanks! I barely ever post on these forum things. Glad I could help!
OH, also - a more common musical (slang) term for an "energy boost" is a "gear shift" - as if a truck's stick shift was shifted to give it more boost, so to speak. It's done a lot at the end of pop tunes to maintain/add excitement - a band will repeat a chorus but raise it up a half or whole step...
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ashley m
01-17-2007
It does seem as though the minor keys give a more excited upbeat sound to a track & major keys a more deeper sound.
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-17-2007
Theoretically, Major keys should have a happy feeling, upbeat feeling. Minor keys are supposed to be sad and nostalgic.
Couple of examples: Eric Prydz - Call On Me (Major), Sasha - Xpander (Minor).
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-25-2007
I bet this topic will get to 1000 DJ participations soon :)
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-25-2007
By the way, we will post a new "How To" topic soon. The subject is how to label your CDs for harmonic mixing.
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erik prestinary
02-07-2007
hello when you reach for example 12A (D flat ) you will then jump to what ? 2A?
thanks
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
02-07-2007
12A > 2A is correct. That's how we would do it.
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DJ Playboy
02-10-2007
hi guys i m new to this forum , also an amateur dj .
i want to buy this mixed in key . looks like it would help me
at present i m using Denon 1000's . i m mixing very well but not harmonic mixing .
i mix only according to the Bpm count . if i play one song on 130 bpm 8B and the other song of (125 bpm) with the same key i increase the tempo by +5 , the key changes.
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DSP420
02-13-2007
didnt u say to go up one hour or go down one hour? or u can go up 2 hours also? and what else can we doo???
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Nem
02-14-2007
Hi guys,
I'm new to this forum but definately not to HM.
Whilst I wasn't the first to mention HM on tranceaddict.com, I did start the main thread for this.
Basically I have been Harmonic Mixing for as long as I have been a DJ which is a long time.
This seems like a cool forum with people who are genuinely interested in what I consider pretty much the only way to mix.
People often tend to believe that Harmonic Mixing is mixing by numbers especially when using the camelot system, but that is a pretty ignorant view to have as technically all music is mathematical and is for the want of a better expression, making noise by numbers.
So what of creating energy in a mix. Well there are plenty of ways you can add a bit of drama.
This isn't soley done by key alone as the music itself plays an integral part (Ok captain obvious statement of the day).
I also use a plus or minus 4 on the Camelot scale. They don't always work so you have to know your music before doing this but this can also create some extra drama.
Another theory on what works etc is to disect the components in the root chord of a track and you will often find other combinations that you can mix to a greater or lesser degree. For example if you switch basslines on a mix from 6A to 3A you generate a nice lift but not as extreme as if you went from 6A to 1A.
Try it.
You will also find some tracks that seem to break the rules, and that's normal too.
Keep in mind that the frequencies that create the nastiest clash are the low to low mid frequencies (i.e. bass) so it's always worth using the EQ effectively and in an intelligent way.
The low frequencies are also more prone to phase cancellation so it's always a good idea to control the bottom end of the mix.
Anyways, nice to see people who like HM as much as I do.
All the best
Nem
www.myspace.com/nemster44
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
02-15-2007
Hi Nem,
Welcome to the forum. Can we create a separate topic from your post so more people can read it? You gave very good advice.
Thanks,
Yakov
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Rocdollar
03-01-2007
It is important to note that +1 semitone is the most dissonant key relationship. Together they will clash horrendously so make sure to cut one out just before the new one drops in and do not be tempted to blend melodies - as it will not work!
I find melodic blends or cutting between 2 tracks tend to work best when the tunes are in the same key or have a similar key signature (e.g relative, 1/5th or 1/4 away).
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oldaq
03-04-2007
Yakov,
Im a new and greatfull customer for the MIK. It's simply a great tool for Djs. It makes it a LOT easier!
To my question:
Im getting a lot of major keys (B's) for house songs, is this normal? Especially for the electro house ones.
Just asking since you said that most of dance music are made in minor keys.
Example: Joy Marquez - Frozen (funckeletro mix)
Fedde Le Grand - Just Trippin (original mix)
Thanks for the help!
oldaq
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
03-05-2007
Hi,
Sure, this is normal. Practically all New York House music is in Major key. Junior Vasquez, Peter Rauhofer and other DJs love using it for that dramatic effect. Electro is no different. You will find songs in both Major and Minor key, and it just depends on the producer what they chose to use.
In fact, my friend Nzinga is currently composing a nice House music tune in Major key, and I am producing it.
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GeoffreyChaucer
03-07-2007
Might sound weird, but with some sort of tone adjustment in electronic music production, it sounds like certain tracks are almost playing between the minor and the major (For example playing the C tertian chord as C, D# + 1/4 Step, and G). Is this possible? Can't think of any examples of the top of my head, but some tracks boggle my mind. Also it is important to note that due to some production methods, certain tracks are naturally in between certain keys at 0 and must have their pitch adjusted accordingly so as to avoid being "between" to keys. Don't know how keying software reacts to these...but I do it all manually anyhow.
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DJ Sizeup
03-12-2007
Hi Yakov - I just wanted to clarify:
Ex: you're in 8A
-7A, 8A,8B, and 9A are all compatible (I got that part)
-3A (+ 1 semitone / up 7) and 10A (+ 2 semitones / up 2) would be 'energy boosting'
-1A (- 1 semitone / -7) and 6A (-2 semitones / -2) would slow the dance floor down
I know you said that - 1 semitone (1A) or - 2 semitones (6A) are NOT good choices, so should we as a rule of thumb avoid these at all costs or only use them to slow the floor down? My opinion is that they work sometimes but I just wanted to clarify.
So to wrap it up... if you're in 8A, would the compatible choices be 7A,8A,8B,9A,10A, 3A, but absolutely NOT 6A, and 1A?
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
03-12-2007
You are correct. As a general rule, what you wrote applies to most mixes.
One thing to keep in mind is that music is "human" and doesn't always follow the rules of music theory and mathematics. There are some songs that don't fit into the rules described above.
For example, mixing +2 might not always result in an energy boost between all 8A and 10A songs. To figure out what works best, try a few mixes and remember which ones sounded great. We encourage a lot of experimentation because you'll get the best results if you know your music inside out.
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DJ Sizeup
03-13-2007
Sorry Yakov one more question: if you're in 10A / 10B for example going into 5A or 5B, do you consider that +7 (energy boost) or -5 (not compatible)? Is there any rule of thumb here? Thanks again!
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
03-13-2007
Hi,
The easiest way to visualize "energy boost" is to look at the piano keyboard.
B and C are adjacent keys. If you're in B, and you go up one semitone, you'll be in C. That's the main concept behind "energy boost" mixing.
You are moving right on the piano keyboard to play a higher-pitched melody.
In essence, -5 and +7 are the same thing. +7 is easier to remember because + indicates "boost". -7 is easier to remember because - indicates "drop". It's just makes it easier to remember.
In summary, -5 and +7 give you the same result.
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Dj Justin Carr
03-13-2007
Very good topic. Nice read. I'm still enjoying MIK as an essential part of my sessions. Since reading this topic when it first started, I have actually been utilizing the +2 semitone mixes with a lot of success.
Cheers!
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DJ D-Flux
03-18-2007
I need some help understanding the energy between octave's ... I am having an argument with a friend that for example you want to add some more energy to your mix you put your next tune 2 semitones up (let's take this method) so I am having a tune on deck A with a key of B minor OK ? then the next track in deck B should be C# minor (+2 semitones) OK ... my question is : if that tune from deck A witch is in B minor is in the octave C3 (the center one on a piano), does it make a difference in energy if the track in deck B, witch is in the key of C# minor, belongs to octave C4 or C3 ? IMO it does make a difference cause the higher you go with the semitones the more energy it seems you pick so logical is the same way with the octave's no ? or I'm I wrong ?
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
03-19-2007
Octaves do make a difference. The idea behind "Energy Boost" is to go from lower notes to higher notes on the piano.
You are correct that if you have a song in C3 and you're energy boosting into D3, the effect will be less audible than energy boosting into D4. The higher the notes, the more audible the effect.
This technique may not work is if you're going from C3 to D2, but it's rare that this would be the case. It won't sound terrible, but you just wouldn't get the "boost" effect.
Our guideline for "energy boost" is that your incoming song should be in a higher, or same octave as your original song.
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DJ D-Flux
03-22-2007
yea man thats what I was thinking thx a lot for the confirmation :)
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electroanarc
04-25-2007
Hi All,
You will have to excuse me as I am fairly new to MIK and am not musically trained at all.
I am having difficulty understanding the +/- 6% pitch concept.
I would like to illustrate my question with this example: If I am playing a set at 128bpm, and I have a song which is analysed as 130bpm - 7A, does this mean then that when I slow down this song from 130bpm to 128bpm, it is not in 7A anymore?
Thanks in advance.
A.
Don't worry about this, I found a prior post that answered my question :-)
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ashley m
04-26-2007
I Find some energy boost mixes sound great when a track is pitched back -7 steps from its normal key then mixed with a track in its normal key (the same key as it should be in when played normally).
I.E : 2 tracks in 8A but one has to be pitched back more than 3.00 % in tempo to fit into the mix and drops 7 steps (3A), the next track doesn't need that much altering and stays at 8A but its still +7 steps up and creates a boost in the same way.
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DJ_NoahR
05-13-2007
NOTE: Nevermind, I found the answer to this in another thread in this wonderful forum. Thanks in advance and don't bother replying!
Best,
Noah
****************
Hi All,
I'm a DJ with over 10 years experience in house, techno, and world beat, but very little music theory background. I just downloaded MIK and have to say I love it! Tons of thanks to the MIK team...
My question: You recommend never switching between "majors" and "minors" while also switching keys, such as 9A to 10B.
Sometimes I find that mixing songs between major and minor keys works well though, even though you recommend against it. For example moving in an "energy boost" from 8A to 10B.
I wonder how important it is to stick to the major/minor rule all the time? Can mixing major and minors while switching keys add a bit to the "funk factor" since everything isn't in it's right place? It's a little dirty and edgy and off, yet all works out in the blend? Or am I just crazy here and should really stick to traditional music theory?
Thanks again for everyone's thoughts!
Best,
Noah
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dj saex
05-23-2007
Hi guys, im a beginner dj and trying to experiment. i heard about harmonic mixing and thought nothing of it. found out MIK today just browsing through the net. this whole theory seems quite amazing.
is HM a fairly unknown technique?
i have read this thread and a lot of people are saying that most of their libraries are 8A code.
i just analysed a bit of mine and i have got a lot in 8A, however, i still have plenty in every other code.
im into DNB, does HM work for this genre? most people here seem to be talking about house.
also another question, i use pioneer cdj 800s and i use the MASTER TEMPO function. does that effectively ALWAYS keep any song in the SAME key no matter how much i pitch adjust?
for example, i slow down an 8A song by 6% with master tempo ON, the key will remain 8A?
thanks guys, help is appreciated
keep up the good work
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rhythmunderground
05-26-2007
im into DNB, does HM work for this genre? most people here seem to be talking about house.
it should work
also another question, i use pioneer cdj 800s and i use the MASTER TEMPO function. does that effectively ALWAYS keep any song in the SAME key no matter how much i pitch adjust?
yes, it will
for example, i slow down an 8A song by 6% with master tempo ON, the key will remain 8A?
yes
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Dj harmonic
06-19-2007
Sorry i'm a bit lost, first the guide says i can only mix +1 or -1... now i read that i can also mix +2 or -2 and it is ok? i can even mix +7 or -7? hmm sorry got confused
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Noc 2
06-22-2007
hey been using MIK for a while and i'm well pleased with it. I was just wondering what exactly is modulation mixing?
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Hippie
06-27-2007
Sorry if I missed it in someone's post (posted in another topic and found same mention elsewhere) but on turntables to get to the next semitone in either direction is 4+ or 4-. thats about a 1/16 of an inch pass 4 on your turntables slide.
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
06-27-2007
hey been using MIK for a while and i'm well pleased with it. I was just wondering what exactly is modulation mixing?
Sorry about not catching this earlier. Modulation mixing is a type of mixing where you change keys without using Camelot Easymix method.
Instead of mixing -1, 0, +1, you may mix +2, -2, +7, -7, stay in the same root note, but change letter, etc.
Energy boost mixing is an example of modulation mixing.
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
06-27-2007
Sorry i'm a bit lost, first the guide says i can only mix +1 or -1... now i read that i can also mix +2 or -2 and it is ok? i can even mix +7 or -7? hmm sorry got confused
Mixing +2 raises the energy a lot of the time. Mixing -2 lowers the energy, so we suggest that DJs avoid this mix.
Mixing +7 raises the energy, but it causes a massive key-clash -- best to avoid unless you're mixing drums only.
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djfrequency
07-20-2007
Hello there I have been working with MIK myself now for some time and yes i do agree with you that going between a minor and major ie 8A - 10B can at times sound very good together and this is my take on it.... If at the end of the day it sounds good... Good!! We are djs who are in the position to use our ears to distinguish what sounds good and what doesnt so a person jus uses MIK as a tool to build the foundation for his sets and experiments and plays with it from there experimenting as he sees fit.. Dunno jus my take on it.. Happy spinnin!
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ashley m
07-26-2007
best to just make a note of those indifferent key codes that worked well together before, they might again but its not for sure they always will.
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Jordan Waeles
07-27-2007
Thanks for the tip, I tried it yesterday at a gig and it went really good, it really helped me building up a euphoric ambiance!
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Free4
07-29-2007
Great thread guys.
I've been mixing a while and never really got into the technicalities of what I was doing upto about a year ago.
One of the things I notice is there are alot of DJ's that build atmospheres and drop them but theres only one or two that neutralise it throughout a night.
I think one of the most important things with Harmonic mixing, is to make sure that you interdisperse neutralizing tracks through out a mix.
Its important as it creates a fresher atmosphere to go bouncing off in different directions or to finish a night on.
To much up and down or constant upping a crowd can build alot of tension, (euphoric or otherwise). All that energy is great but with many people in different states you have to have a way to disperse that energy. Else you do see the effects of it by the end of the night.
I keep an eye out for tracks that blend nicely usually in the same key that complement each other but when you leave the first the effect is lifting but refreshing at the same time.
A current example I use at the moment is:-
Guy Gerber's - Stoppage Time - Max Graham Sidechain Mix (massive tune )
into
Kirk Degiorgio, Esoterik - Starwaves - Jimpster Remix
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dj feio
08-15-2007
Hi Yakov,first of all tks a lot for you support the artists with this magic key,I really really appreciate your system,but I have a question for you...
I play tunes in between 139/40 to 144/45 and the beat for me work with 0.7 up or down(like -0.7 or +0.7) to change the bpm of the tune to mix,for exemple,if Im playing one tune in the cdj in 140 and the next tune,the original bpm is 142,so,or I put less -14.0 to arrive in 140 to mix,or the tune that is in the cdj that I plaing ,I need to up + 14.0,soooooooo the question is...
HOW I KNOW ABOUT IF THE HARMONY NOTES IN BETWEEN THE TUNES ARE CORRECTLY,A MEAN,HOW I KNOW IF THE SOUNDS ARE IN THE SAME HARMONY ???
I CAN USE THE SAME SEQUENCE LIKE YOU TEACH IN YOUR SYSTEM,LIKE ,2A / 3A / 3B / 4A /3A /4B...JUST FOR EXEMPLE.OR I NEED TO DO THE OUTHER CALCULATION FOR THIS SITUATION.
Man in advance tks a lot for your support,and if you have time check my music in www.myspace.com/djfeio
Bye
dj feio
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
08-15-2007
HOW I KNOW ABOUT IF THE HARMONY NOTES IN BETWEEN THE TUNES ARE CORRECTLY,A MEAN,HOW I KNOW IF THE SOUNDS ARE IN THE SAME HARMONY ???
Check out this topic for more info:
http://community.mixedinkey.com/Topic.aspx?ID=1767
In summary, you're mixing harmonically if you use Master Tempo or the difference between two song BPMs is less than 3%.
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dj feio
08-15-2007
Man tks a lot for your support...
dj feio
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michael3771
08-15-2007
Just purchased the Mixed-In-Key and it works perfect around 9, 10, 11 – but the tracks in some other keys are totally off – I don't even get them close to match, like keys 1 and 2 for example. What I did was, that I dropped my whole folder (around 250 tracks) in the program at once and analyzed them all together. Do you think this was to much to handle or what could went wrong? The latest Traktor in combination with the latest Apple Software is giving me also hard times, the sync didn't work and I changed the preferences, now it works, but like I mentioned earlier, just for some tracks – the rest is so off ... Any ideas, advise???
Reply
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
08-16-2007
Dear Michael,
Mixed In Key should work the same on any computer, so it's not your fault. It may be that the music you're analyzing in keys 1 and 2 is heavily modulated and doesn't fit any particular key.
Will you please email me at yakov@mixedinkey.com and give me some track names as examples?
Reply
dj feio
08-16-2007
Yakov my friend,listen this...
I have MAC BOOK PRO ,so your program I instaled there,well when I PUT ONE CD STRAIGHT TO THE MIK HE ANALYSE AND GAVE ME ONE NOTE,BUT IF I COPY THE TUNE FOR MY DESK AND AFTER I PUT IN THE MIK HE GAVE ME OUTHER NOTE,for exemple:
Same tune I have 9A when I put from my desk to the MIK,and 12B from the all cd that I put straight in the MIK,sooooo why like this ???
how is the correctly prosses for the MIK read(analyse) the note from the tune ???
In advancd tks one more time.
feio
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dj feio
08-16-2007
Yakov Im so very sorry to give you a lot of trouble with my kid problem,sooooo I know now whats happen...
All the music when I delete in the ANALYZE,he come to the BROWSE COLLECTION,and when I analyze one cd that have the same name like TRACK 1 and outher cd with TRACK 1 too,automaticly the MIK read the tune that are in the BROWSE,so now I delete boths and everything work good.
Man sorry.
feio
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
08-17-2007
Hi guys,
9A and 12B are compatible keys -- sometimes it's hard for people and software to decide which one is correct. Depending on the method that you used to rip the CD, it may add slight artifacts that change the key to Minor, or vice versa. If the result is right on the border between them, both keys are correct.
In our next version, we'll display both keys if they fit the song perfectly.
Also, I have one request: Let's use this topic for "energy boost" discussion only. If you have a support question, please contact us at contact@mixedinkey.com and we'll help right away. Otherwise, please start a new topic separate from this one.
-Yakov
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DJ Adrian
08-31-2007
Hi Hyperion -
In response to "For example, how do you effectively slow the dance floor down if your crowd as been dancing manically for a couple of hours?"
Try rhythmic variations. One of the best is half-timing. Or, alternately, double-timing. Really creates the "reset" you are looking for.
You will even find other mathematical relationships that exist beyond half & double timing that you wouldn't expect to work but do.
Good luck!
Adrian
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Jo[h]n Squared
09-12-2007
Hello, I've just bought the software and am getting to grips with it...
Is it preferable to keep moving clockwise? It just seems natural to me after reading the tutorial and trying out a few mixes - or is it not a question of this.
Had some exceptional results so far with progressive house tunes!
The energy boost thing...going from 2A to 9A is said to achieve that, from 9A could I go to 4A and then 11A? does it continue that way?
Cheers
John.
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
09-12-2007
Is it preferable to keep moving clockwise? It just seems natural to me after reading the tutorial and trying out a few mixes - or is it not a question of this.
Clockwise and counter-clockwise are both possible. I've always liked moving clock-wise, but it's a personal preference because of specific music that I play in my favorite sequence.
Had some exceptional results so far with progressive house tunes!
Great! Welcome aboard :)
The energy boost thing...going from 2A to 9A is said to achieve that, from 9A could I go to 4A and then 11A? does it continue that way?
Yes, it works exactly as you described. However, it may cause a very noticable key clash. If you go +2 instead of +7, the clash will be less noticable, but the energy mix will be even better. Give it a try, go from 9A to 11A, then to 1A, then to 3A, etc.
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Camelot Sound
10-06-2007
We have just keyed a large batch of psy-trance and discovered that key detection software is MORE accurate with this style than with other genres. This is likely due the fact that many tracks use a single bass tone with virtually zero changes over the length of each track.
These results suggest that modulation mixes (going up +2 or +7 keycodes to "boost" energy levels) should be especially effective with psy-trance as long as you do NOT overlay bass notes. Their lack of strong melody also suggests that many of them can be easily mixed as either major or minor keys.
For example, a non-melodic psy-trance track with a strong bass tone in "A" could be keyed equally well as an A-Minor (8A) or A-Major (11B). It could be harmonically mixed with other tracks between 7-9 or tracks between 10-12. You could make modulation mixes as an 8A to 10A or 3A. You could make modulation mixes as an 11B to 1B or 6B.
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FractalGee
10-07-2007
@Camelotsound
awesome, I spin only psy and goa trance (the goa tracks have more likelihood of having a varied bassline and more melodic btw, I consider them other side of the coin to psytrance) and some psyprog (also very likely to have more than one main bassnote). Have been working with major to minor and the 2 step and 7 step on the Cameot wheel. Works very well indeed. Did a mix with tracks from 1997 (mostly goa) and came out exceptionally well.
I do disagree that one shouldn't overlay bassnotes though, can work well if one uses the major/minor move, and also if it is 2 steps away on the wheel in my humble opinion. But yes, easy to clash on those if one isn't careful....
Slowly keying all the stuff I have been collecting since 1995 ;) as there are around 1K CDs to slog through o_O
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FractalGee
10-11-2007
@Camelot Sound
have a list of psytrance analyzed? ;)
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DJ Joey C
10-12-2007
("Hi Yakov - I just wanted to clarify:
Ex: you're in 8A
-7A, 8A,8B, and 9A are all compatible (I got that part)
-3A (+ 1 semitone / up 7) and 10A (+ 2 semitones / up 2) would be 'energy boosting'
-1A (- 1 semitone / -7) and 6A (-2 semitones / -2) would slow the dance floor down
I know you said that - 1 semitone (1A) or - 2 semitones (6A) are NOT good choices, so should we as a rule of thumb avoid these at all costs or only use them to slow the floor down? My opinion is that they work sometimes but I just wanted to clarify.
So to wrap it up... if you're in 8A, would the compatible choices be 7A,8A,8B,9A,10A, 3A, but absolutely NOT 6A, and 1A? ")
Is 8B the only B that is compatible to 8A then?
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
10-15-2007
So to wrap it up... if you're in 8A, would the compatible choices be 7A,8A,8B,9A,10A, 3A, but absolutely NOT 6A, and 1A? ")
Correct. If your original song is 8A, possible options are:
8A (same key) will be the most harmonic (and perfect for mashups)
7A, 8B, 9A are compatible keys for smooth mixing
10A and 3A are modulation mixes (mix quickly to avoid a key clash)
If you can do it quickly, you can also mix from 8A to 11B (A Minor to A Major). It's called an Absolute Major mix. It key clashes like crazy, but it works with certain ambient and atmospheric music.
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DJ D-Flux
11-24-2007
@Camelot Sound
really ? cause I have some psy tracks and mixed in key doidnt want to analyze them event with prayers :) soo ...
anyway I think MIK works very well with trance music... I tested it and makes wonders
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ashley m
12-16-2007
Well I find with version 3. +2 step modulation mixes, basslines seem to still fit hand in glove especially within Trance.
As I like to blend, this is why I stick to +2 step modulation where I can.
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e-Legal
12-20-2007
thanks for all the great information
guys you need to all remember the best part of djing is experimenting different mixes and different mashes...
this amazing software shouldnt limit you guys of your creativity, it should just improve your mixes and help you mix in key without even needing to fully learn all the keys...
the creativity part is up to you...
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
12-21-2007
Yes, e-Legal is absolutely right. I've said this before, but I don't mind saying it again. Mixed In Key is here to help you make decisions, not make them for you
; )
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leftydc
01-07-2008
Hey! but does it necesarily change the key? for insance when i use Mixmeister for mixin and mashing suposebly still should be in same key, mabe im just too strongly believenig what mixmeister said about their program that it dosnt change key when u change the BPM. well anyway i cannot hear the difference when i let the bpm go upword from example 128 to 130 or bit more or less, Sorry if its little bit offtopic, im reading the page stil rite now so i thought to ask before ill forget. thanx
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-08-2008
Hi,
As long as the BPM change is under 3%, your tunes will sound great together. If you use Master Tempo (also known as Key Lock), you can change tempo up to 6-7% without hearing the key change.
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e-Legal
01-12-2008
is there something the guru's dont know ?
do you play in any clubs yakov, produce?
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-13-2008
Hi,
I've had great club residences in Washington DC. I am still young but I started early, and got to play along great names from our DJ community.
I learned most of my techniques from DJ Prince and Mark Davis (Camelot Sound). Both of them are wizards at harmonic mixing. I am just a student :)
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psy
01-18-2008
hi just wondering if i go up 2 but it is from say 12a to 2a will this work as an upper effect or downer just wonderin because 2 clockwise from 12 on the scale is 2 so this would suggest upper but 2 is lower than 12 on the scale so this would suggest downer. cheers
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Spiral
01-18-2008
HI !! : )
I BOUGTH the software and DOES ANYONE KNOW = ? why does nothing appears when i click on the '''''Read Tutorial option'''''''' !!
i want to understand the program...
TKS !!
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
01-18-2008
if i go up 2 but it is from say 12a to 2a will this work as an upper effect or downer
You are still going up one whole step in notation, from D-flat to E-flat, so no matter where you are on the Camelot Wheel you will always get the energy boost effect.
I bought the software and does anyone know why nothing appears when i click on the '''''Read Tutorial option''''''''?
I'm not sure why this would happen, but I've emailed you screenshots of the tutorial until we can figure out what went wrong. Which version did you purchase, and what type of computer are you on?
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psy
01-19-2008
cheers chad much appreciated
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nusse2000
01-21-2008
Hey!
Im sorry about this but i want to make this clear once and for all for me....
Say youre in 1A...
you can stay in 1A... or go to 12A, 2A, or 1B
for a energy boost you go to 3A(small boost) or
8A(big boost)
If you want to "energy drain" ;) you go to 11A(small drain) or 6A(big drain)
Correct?
Also... I'd like to know how much more accurate as to finding the right key mixedinkey is than other products such as mixmeister... at what %-rate accurate is mixedinkey?
BR
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
01-21-2008
for a energy boost you go to 3A(small boost) or
8A(big boost)
If you want to "energy drain" ;) you go to 11A(small drain) or 6A(big drain)
Correct?
Not quite. You have to look at which keys the numbers represent. So for your example you are starting in 1A, which is A-flat minor. Jumping to 3A gives you B-flat minor, which is a
whole step
higher than 1A. Jumping to 8A gives you A-minor, which is only a
half-step
higher than your original key of A-flat minor. Just reverse your big and small boosts/drains and you've got it : )
Also... I'd like to know how much more accurate as to finding the right key mixedinkey is than other products such as mixmeister... at what %-rate accurate is mixedinkey?
We don't want to get into an "Our program is more accurate than yours!" "No its not!" type of argument, so for the record I'll just say that Mixed In Key is 90-95% accurate.
Cheers!
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nusse2000
01-23-2008
Ohh Then i get it! Nice!
Thank you for taking the time to explain.
One more question now that I figured out what steps i can take to make my mixes more harmonic.
What harmonic steps will clash the most/least in general?
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-23-2008
Staying in the same key will clash the least. Mixing -1, +1, and changing the letter (like 5A > 5B, or 10B > 10A) will clash the least.
Mixing +7 (like 1A to 8A) or -7 (12A to 5A) will clash the most.
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nusse2000
01-24-2008
and +/- 2 camelot steps will clash more or less than +/-1 camelot step?
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
01-24-2008
Hi nusse2000,
I don't think that it is so much of an issue of clashing as it is a change in key. Try not to read too much into your key results. Some tracks still might not mix together, due to vibe, rhythm, etc. We're not trying to take the thinking out of DJing. You will still need an ear for what goes together. Mixed In Key is just here to help you make that decision. You're going to have to experiment and see what works for you : )
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-24-2008
To my ears, +2/-2 clashes less than +1/-1. By definition, +1/-1 is the most jarring mix possible.
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nusse2000
01-25-2008
Chad and Yakov! Thank you for enduring my questions! :P
I know it might sound a little like im reading my way through djing... The truth is... well... Up to this point i never gave harmonies or keys a chance because it all felt like it was too advanced for me. (the beatmatching was hard enough :P )
So until now ive tried to just listen and feel my way through sets.
Thats why Im curious. Im trying to figure out the logics behind harmonic mixing and then applying my taste and my feeling in to my sets =) I do understand your point Chad and I know there is much more to djing than just keycodes ;)
And ofcourse questions :P (wouldnt be a nusse-post without questions)
Still dont quite get it....
------------------------------------------------------
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-23-2008
" Staying in the same key will clash the least. Mixing -1, +1, and changing the letter (like 5A > 5B, or 10B > 10A) will clash the least.
Mixing +7 (like 1A to 8A) or -7 (12A to 5A) will clash the most. "
------------------------------------------------------
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-24-2008
"To my ears, +2/-2 clashes less than +1/-1. By definition, +1/-1 is the most jarring mix possible."
------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I just dont understand english that good but... Clashing = Jarring right???
Once and for all... on a scale beginning with clashing least:
1. No camelot step (Staying in the same camelot step)
2. +2 or -2 camelot hours
3. +1, -1 camelot hours or changing A/B
4. +7 or -7 camelot hours
is this right?
also...
What do you do when a tune turns out with 2 differend keys in MIK? Can i trust both?
BR
/Nusse
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
01-25-2008
Hi nusse,
I was confused by Yakov's response as well. Care to elaborate for us?
As far as dual key tracks go, both should work well. We put this feature in for tracks that are not clearly in one key, so we report both keys to give you more options.
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Yakov (Mixed In Key)
01-25-2008
Hi,
Sure, I am glad to elaborate.
Here are the best harmonic mixing methods:
1) The best mix requires you to stay in the same keycode. For example, mix from 10A to 10A. It will be perfect every time.
2) Mixing -1 or +1 from your current keycode. For example, 10A can go to 9A or 11A. This is how DJs move around the Camelot circle for smooth harmonic mixing.
3) Changing the letter: For example, 10A to 10B, or vice versa. This is how you can go from inner circle to outer circle on the Camelot wheel. In music theory, it means you're mixing into the Relative Major, or Relative Minor keys. It's a smooth mix as well.
Modulation mixing
Modulation mixing creates an interesting effect on the dance floor. For example, you can raise and lower the energy by playing a specific sequence of keys.
You should never overlay two tracks using modulation mixing.
Only quick cuts will sound good.
Here are some modulation mixes:
4) Mixing +2 from your original keycode. For example, 10A to 12A. Great mix.
5) Mixing -2 from your original keycode. For example, 10A to 8A. This lowers the energy and cools off the dance floor (to a point that people might stop dancing). Not advisable.
6) Mixing from absolute Minor to absolute Major (like 10A to 1B, or vice versa). This causes a pretty bad key clash, but it's an interesting transition.
7) Mixing +7 (for example, 10A to 5A). This mix clashes horribly. It's the "little brother" of the Energy Boost mix, but I prefer not to use it. +2 sounds better than +7.
8) Mixing -7 (for example, 10A to 3A). This mix clashes badly as well, plus it lowers the energy. Guaranteed way to make people stop dancing and go home.
My favorite methods are #1 through #4. For the sake of learning, try #5 - #7. Avoid method #8 because mixing -7 is bad for business.
In summary, modulation mixing will always key clash. If you use this technique, you are looking to create a "special effect" on the dance floor such as raising or lowering the energy. It's a good technique to use in between smooth mixing provided by methods #1 through #4.
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nusse2000
02-07-2008
Hey!
Thank you for that one! Lovely!
How do you update your MIK?
does it update itself?
links?
BR /Nusse
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
02-07-2008
Hi nusse2000,
You should get an update pop-up window when one is available upon launching the program. Version 3.1 for Mac should be released soon.
Cheers,
Chad
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voyager
02-17-2008
sander kleinenberg is also the king of this trick... as it works very well with his sound... :)
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Scum
02-29-2008
I have purchased mixed in key and I'm well pleased with it coz it simplifies my life no end. The only thing that I feel needs to be brought up is using mixers fx. The latest groups of mixers use some pretty good detunable fx, so this seems like a sensible thing to talk about on this site coz its stating mixing secrets and I've learned loads since I found it. Without wanting to tick Allen and Heath off I'm gonna point out that the djm800 from Pioneer also has a harmonic mixing function on it allowing you to lock to semitones and also shift semitones manually. I'm no expert dj but it seems to me that these functions are also under the rules of harmony and the fx when the harmonic rules are applied have a bearing on how to create a correct sounding mix. I am reading all the info on this site and wondering how to throw in tunes that are under normal circumstances not mixable because common sense tells me that if I cut this tune with that one mixed in key says that I'll be out by point two of a bpm or somthing like that so I was wondering what mixed in key thought about ways to use mixers like the djm800 to adjust a tracks key and make a normally unmixable track mixable and rules of thumb on messing around with fx that cause pitch shift that djs actually use in their sets.
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Scum
02-29-2008
Coz I have djm800 (lucky me!) and I'm thinking to work out where all the keys are from the camelot scale and mark up where they are on a sticker and put it round the cfx rotary pot so I can tune in detuned records. If this turns out to be practical I think that it might just be the best thing since sliced bread for the beginner dj coz you have the tools to mix spot on. Also the robot effect could do with a rule or two about shifting a key like what percentage gives off a key kick up or down.
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
02-29-2008
Hi Scum,
I haven't had a chance to personally test out the djm800, but if you know what key you are in, what key you need, and how many semitones it's going to take to get it there, then you should be in business. I wouldn't count on this being a miracle solution quite yet, as pitch-shifting more than a semi-tones can leave artifacts. Again, I haven't tested this personally, just what I've heard.
Cheers,
Chad
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Neil C-Word
03-18-2008
Another little point which I noticed on saturday night regarding effects. I'd really like someone to test this for me as I dont have a DJM at home.
when using the echo effect. I often turn the time button way down between 1 and 12 to get a kind of robotic effect over the track.(normally it sits around 100 to 400 for house depending on how many beat repeats you want.)´If you turn it way down it give a proper nasty effect.
I've often found that this works better on different numbers for different tracks.
I was fiddling about on saturday and often found that whatever number on the camelot scale I was in, worked better for that song.
This just might have been a fluke or the tequila talking but I'd love for someone to check it out for me.
I would try it this weekend coming but we're using an A&H (better for a big club)
so in conclusion, when making the echo scream at a close to 1 time setting, does setting the time to the number on the camelot system make it sound better?
Do you understand what I mean?
Please try....
xxx
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
03-18-2008
so in conclusion, when making the echo scream at a close to 1 time setting, does setting the time to the number on the camelot system make it sound better?
Hmmm, you might be on to something. Here's something else that could be fun to try:
Divide your age by the Camelot number of your favorite song. Then look at the letter of the alphabet that correlates with this number-1 for A, 2 for B, 3 for C, etc. This will be the first letter of the name of your one true love.
just playin with ya, I couldn't help myself ; )
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Tuur
03-19-2008
Hehehe...
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DJ Baruch
04-06-2008
Guys it took me 7 years to say wow i am a dj now you still need good DJ skills. Yakov you rock any ways. Check out www.surroundsounddj.com the best dj service in Toronto, Canada
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caglar
04-18-2008
well this is first message by me and im not sure it posted b4...the thing that im gonna say its an advice and helper for the ppl like me who dont speak-understand english very well...
can someone add an examples ? like 2a-2b? i mean hm like 20 secs demo.. than i can realize what u guys exatly say? (i guess first i need to know melodies:D)
and also u can separete this examples to genrees..trance house etc...i believe it works..
thanks
caglar..
Reply
KrissO
05-08-2008
Seems like you never got any help caglar.
Anyway, I made two samples for you to understand.
The main tune is called "The Longest Road", the other tune mixing in is called "Lonely"
In this example, The Longest Road is 2A and Lonely is 2B.
http://www.dump.no/files/c83fc71b98d2/2A-2B__longest_road-lonely.mp3
After 15 seconds Lonely comes in. As you can hear, they mix perfectly! You could make a mashup of these two.
Here is an example with the same tracks, but they are not in the same key.
http://www.dump.no/files/c83fc71b98d2/2A-9B__longest_road-lonely.mp3
After 15 seconds the other tunes comes in. As you can hear, they do NOT mix perfectly.
This is because Lonely now has the key 9B.
On the camelot, 2A and 9B are 7 steps from each other.
Here is a last example.
http://www.dump.no/files/c83fc71b98d2/2A-2B-9B__longest_road-lonely.mp3
After 30 seconds you can clearly hear that Lonely changes from 2B to 9B. The Longest Road is still in 2A.
When the key changes, it sounds like an "energy boost", but it also clashes badly.
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
05-08-2008
Thanks for posting those KrissO, good job. Sorry for missing your post caglar, we try to respond to everyone who asks for assistance.
Best,
Chad
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ashley m
05-19-2008
I have decided to call modulation & boost mixing 'Adverse Harmonic mixing' for myself as its not exactly harmonic in a sense.
Well you know what I mean anyway.
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DJ RodZ
05-28-2008
Question -
Is it a energy booster mix if you go +2 or +7 and change letter? Ex. 2A -> 4B or 2A -> 9B?
Thanks!
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KrissO
05-28-2008
I will leave that to the experts, but since 4A / 4B and 9A / 9B are compitable... the energy boost should have the same effect to either letter?
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Noc 2
05-31-2008
When going from minor to absolute major (ie. 1A to 4B) you say this is a pretty big clash but i don't think so well not with some tracks.
Anyway the question i wanted to ask is when you have gone from 1A to 4B what keys can you go to then. Apart from 5B,6B,3B, 4A, 11B, 2B. Can you do as you did before but go the opposite way ie. from 4B to 7A or does it have to be 1a?
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-01-2008
Try it and see. If it works for you and your tracks, then go for it!
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DJ RodZ
06-02-2008
I never got an answer from one of the Mixed In Key guys on this question -
Is it a energy booster mix if you go +2 or +7 and change letter? Ex. 2A -> 4B or 2A -> 9B?
Any help is appreciated.
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-02-2008
I wouldn't recommend switching letters for an energy boost mix, but it could work. We encourage creativity and experimentation with our software.
Thanks,
Chad
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d1gi
06-18-2008
KrissO: when you posted this example:
http://www.dump.no/files/c83fc71b98d2/2A-2B-9B__longest_road-lonely.mp3
What made the key / pitch drastically change like that so that it sounded off?
I'm definitely new to HM, but been mixing records for quite a while now and just getting more into music theory. I taught myself everything I know with no real life help really.. so my music theory isnt that great.
Also, i dont understand what people were saying about pitch changing key. Currently I'm using traktor scratch via my laptop, running with 2 technic 1200's as external controllers.. are you saying that when i change the pitch on the decks.. that it changes the key of the tracks? if so.. how can i avoid this.. since i would like to continue harmonic mixing, but dont want to have to re-figure out all the keys in my head when changing the pitch to beatmatch?
or am i just confused here!
thanks for the help... this forum is great.. and bringing one up from the dead on this post!
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-18-2008
Traktor has a feature called Key Lock, which allows you to change the tempo of a track without changing it's key. Just press the key button right underneath the pitch slider.
Cheers,
Chad
Reply
d1gi
06-19-2008
Cool yeah, actually noticed that yesterday when i looked into the program more, and more about 'keys' and such. Weird thing is.. when i press the keylock.. it seems like it makes the songs sound weird.. it almost seems like they have a delay / echo or something strange. Maybe I will try to post up some sound files later so that you can see what i mean.
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-19-2008
Hi,
Yeah, there are different settings. I don't use Traktor a lot, but I know one of Native's DJ product specialists, I'll look into it and check with him, and get you squared away!
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-20-2008
Hello,
Just got in touch with him, he says to go into the preferences menu, then unfold the Deck Preferences, and click on 'Sound & Mixer.' Under Time Stretch Quality, choose PSOLA. If you have a really fast computer or are working with accapellas, then he says you can switch to the Phase Vocoder setting, but you shouldn't need that.
Best,
Chad
Reply
Playto
07-04-2008
Hey,
I need some help moving from major keys to minor keys and vice versa. With the exception of the corresponding minor key are there any other minor keys one can move to and vice versa, are there any "rules" for this?
TIA
Reply
DJ Dayak
07-09-2008
Dayak :thx dude its work to do da harmonic set....
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
07-23-2008
I need some help moving from major keys to minor keys and vice versa. With the exception of the corresponding minor key are there any other minor keys one can move to and vice versa, are there any "rules" for this?
Switching from major to minor of the same key can work in some cases. For example switching from C major to C minor can create an interesting effect. Just experiment and see what works for your style.
Peace,
Chad
Reply
Leeroy
09-04-2008
What a load of compleate Bollocks!
c- f- We are Club DJ's and not classical musicans
I would not know what a D Major was if it ran me over in the street!
I would like to talk to you about this as I feel that I have wasted my money on this
07970 387721
I look forward to hearing from you
Kind regards
Leeroy
Reply
Leeroy
09-04-2008
What a load of jumped up crap!
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
09-04-2008
Hi Leeroy,
I've followed up with you via email.
Sincerely,
Chad
Reply
DJ%VK
09-10-2008
I do not know the d,minor from an E,flat.I do learn fast but need some simular samples please.
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
09-11-2008
I do not know the d,minor from an E,flat.I do learn fast but need some simular samples please.
Take a look at the Camelot Wheel. D Minor is 7A. E-Flat Minor is one semi-tone higher, or +7, 2A. Anytime your next track is 7 places higher on the Camelot wheel than your current track, you are doing an energy boost mix. The same thing goes for adding 2, you will just now be doing a two semi-tone jump.
Best,
Chad
Reply
Muchahco
09-21-2008
I just sign it to this forum
I'm very old dj and i love and spin house music.
I organize my cd case by genres meaning
"deep house" "vocal house" "tech house" etc
and sometimes to earlier stuff and heavier stuff more for the peak time hours of the club.
I read everything about mixedinkey and its very intresting.What i dont understand is how you know based on camelot system that some tracks are softer-early time on club or harder or for peak time.Even some tracks are more melancholic other more aggresive.
Can this identified with number etc example
harder can be a 10A or melancolic can be a 6b
for example?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
09-21-2008
What i dont understand is how you know based on camelot system that some tracks are softer-early time on club or harder or for peak time.Even some tracks are more melancholic other more aggresive.
Can this identified with number etc example
harder can be a 10A or melancolic can be a 6b
for example?
Most keys do have a certain feel to them, but I think what you're asking is a little more complex than that. Being able to determine the kind of things you described is a great idea, and one we will consider looking into.
Cheers,
Chad
Reply
Muchahco
09-21-2008
Thanks for your reply !
Its easy to organize your cd case by camelot numbers only.Its similare to bpm's
But the difficult part is to organize your case not only by camelot numbers but with genres and low early or harder peak time tunes.
So you can work easy when you play and not messed on thousands tracks you have on case or on hard drive.
Can you give an example of number and feeling of tunes might be ?
example 10a is aggresive or 9b is chillin
Reply
djchez
09-24-2008
Im a dj in Toronto Canada. never really had an issue mixing in key but no one is perfect. bought this program just to see how it works. No dj plays their sets at 0%. The first track will always be +whatever%. Do you think when in front of a club you have time to stand there and try to calculate how much precent above 0 is equal the what tone the camalot track is in... And then its not done there. You have to do the same for ever single track. It really sounds ridiculous to me. If this is supposed to save you time its not. And in the end it is NOT even guaranteed that the 2 tracks you want to mix together will even mix right even following the Camalot chart. You still have to sit home and try mixing all the possible combinations together. Doesnt any dj do this anyways.
Unless i am mistaken this program was a waist of 50 dollers.
I just bought this program yesterday so havnt had alot of time with it. Please correct me if i am wrong!!
djchez
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
09-24-2008
Hi djchez,
Like any new technique, mixing harmonically takes practice. Start with the basics, like mixing tracks in the same key and same tempo. Then move on to more advanced techniques dealing with tempo and key changes. Calculating these changes may seem difficult at first, but once you've done it a few times you will start to see what key a given track will be in without too much work. It won't be in the next update, but we are also planning on adding a key calculator to the MIK Collections browser, so that you will be able to see what the key of any track at a given tempo would be.
Cheers,
Chad
Reply
Muchahco
10-05-2008
I think is a very good Tool after
play with it a bit.
Reply
djluckyb
11-01-2008
Yakov
your power boost mixing, how does it relate to the wheel vs the piano keyboard?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
11-01-2008
your power boost mixing, how does it relate to the wheel vs the piano keyboard?
+7 on the Camelot Wheel translates to one note on the piano, +2 on the Wheel translates to two notes on the piano.
:)
Reply
Sarper
12-04-2008
I just want to be sure if I got this correctly as I will try this weekend during my gig. Lets say I started with 3A and continue to play 3A, 4A, 4B for a while and when I feel like I need to switch gears I would go from 4A to 7A? Do I need to also increase my tempo, lets say if I was at 124 bmp, I need to match my next song's bmp 3% higher?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
12-04-2008
Lets say I started with 3A and continue to play 3A, 4A, 4B for a while and when I feel like I need to switch gears I would go from 4A to 7A?
You've almost got it, but not quite. To go up one semitone, add 7 to your current Camelot number. If you're in E-flat Minor (2A), add 7 and you'll be in E Minor (9A).
To go up two semitones, just add 2 to your current Camelot number. If you're in C Minor (5A), add 2 and you'll get D Minor (7A). Play your next tune in 7A, and you'll experience an energy boost mix.
Do I need to also increase my tempo, lets say if I was at 124 bmp, I need to match my next song's bmp 3% higher?
When energy boost mixing, you should keep the BPM the same. Please let us know if you need more help understanding this concept.
Cheers,
Chad
Reply
Sarper
12-04-2008
Thank you for your response. So energy boost always occurs @ 7A? If I am already playing 7A and if I want to increase it even further I would add 5 and play 12A the next song?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
12-04-2008
So energy boost always occurs @ 7A? If I am already playing 7A and if I want to increase it even further I would add 5 and play 12A the next song?
I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. Energy boosts always happen when you add 7 or 2 to the current Camelot Key. So if you are playing in 7A adding 7 for a one semitone jump would be the key of 2A, and adding 2 for a two semitone jump would give you 9A. My advice is to look at the Camelot Wheel to help you understand this. Locate the key of the track you want to energy boost from, and then count clockwise either 7 or 2 steps. Notice the correlation between the lettered keys - 7A is D minor. Adding 7 to this key gives you 2A, which is E-Flat Minor, one semitone above D. Adding 2 gives you 9A, or E Minor. E is 2 semitones above D. Try this for other keys and you will see the same pattern. Does this make more sense to you now? If not, I'll be happy to provide you with some more examples.
Cheers,
Chad
Reply
Sarper
12-04-2008
Thanks for your patience. Here is what I understood: Always add 2 or 7 to yoyr current key, if I play 3A boost can be either 5A or 10 A. If I play 6A boost can be 8A or 1A? Alternatively A can be replaced with B.
I hope I got it not, if not call me an idiot :))
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
12-04-2008
Hey Sarper,
It sounds like you've got it. I know that it seems confusing at first, but once you've used this technique a few times you'll be mixing like a pro! The same rule applies for "B" tracks.
Cheers,
Chad
Reply
DJ Robbie D
12-18-2008
hiiiiiiiiiiii , Yakov
i dnt know from where i can get tracks shorter than 4 min or shorter than 5 and shorter than 2:30 min
and when i put some tracks in mixed in key they seeem one is 10A and the other is 11A and when i start to mix them i feel the bass of the first and the bass off the second not too lovely or somtimes in other tracks they seeems to get clash whyy???? please answer me
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
12-18-2008
i dnt know from where i can get tracks shorter than 4 min or shorter than 5 and shorter than 2:30 min
I believe you are inquiring as to the length of tracks to use
Yakov's Perfect Mix
method. I think the way to really make this technique work is to carefully select which portion of a song you want to play - you don't have to play the whole song.
and when i put some tracks in mixed in key they seeem one is 10A and the other is 11A and when i start to mix them i feel the bass of the first and the bass off the second not too lovely or somtimes in other tracks they seeems to get clash whyy???? please answer me
Sometimes tracks will clash despite being in a related key, or perhaps they were improperly keyed. If you have files that you feel were improperly keyed, please send them to us so that we can use them to improve our key detection algorithm.
Thanks,
Chad
Reply
LS
01-02-2009
I am new to mixed in key but as I read on energy boosting, I sorta get the idea.
So if for example, I start my set at 2a and add +2 for 4a, I will have a energy boost in my set? Is it possible for example to mix 2a, 2a, then add 2 for 4a and still get the energy boost?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
01-02-2009
Hi LS,
You've got the right idea, all of your examples would work. Mixes prior to the energy boost do not affect it.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
zac
01-16-2009
Mentos
12-19-2006
I assume the same rules apply here as for modulation mixing in that basslines and melodies should be kept separate? Just wanted to clarify it . Reply
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
12-19-2006
Hi,
That's right, it's better not to overlay melodies in modulation mixing.
ive just done the two semitone mix usin two very similar basslines and it sounds sweet as so that does not nessacerily apply try for your selves
like with any mixin track selection is the essential key
Reply
LS
01-16-2009
I have another question. Is it possible to go 1 semitone and then add 2 or 7 semitones for energy boosting? For example, 1a, 2a, 4a, 6a, 5a, 12a.
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
01-16-2009
Is it possible to go 1 semitone and then add 2 or 7 semitones for energy boosting? For example, 1a, 2a, 4a, 6a, 5a, 12a.
Absolutely. You can use this technique as many or as few times as you want, and in combination with any other harmonic mixing techniques. I should point out though that the numbers on the Camelot Wheel don't represent semitones. 7 steps on the Camelot Wheel is a one semitone shift, and 2 steps on the Camelot Wheel is a two semitone shift. Look at the letters that are associated with the numbers, and it will start to make sense to you.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
DJ Intoxikate
01-16-2009
Amazing! You have explained it all. I have always thought that there was a special formula to lift the dance floor but didn't know what exactly. I'v learnt a lot just from reading about the application & look forward to buying it in the future. Key clashes are so sour! xxx
Reply
Saman'i
02-18-2009
I have read 3/4 of the thread from the v.beg
You guys have helped me to understand so much in such a short space of time (well my morning actually)
I have been DJing for many yrs but only playing out 2, I have alot of friends who also DJ and they are going down traktor route.
i was a vinyl a purist and refused to budge for a long time but since trying out and seeing all these new ways of mixing it is def starting to open my eyes I also love melodic techno and so this means mixing in key makes more sense!"
thank you so much for the help and advice its really helped... ALOT!
sam (aka Saman'i)
Reply
DJ Smithers
03-05-2009
Hi Yakov/Chad
I've just bought the software and it's great! Helps alot with selecting the next song and not worrying about accidently downing the dancefloor at the wrong time. I've got one question though, I still play alot of vinyl coz most of my classics are on vinyl. I'd love to find out their respective keys without the hassle of recording them and then analyzing them, not to mention the possiblity of picking up 'artifacts' through poor recording, etc. Is there a database for songs? Or perhaps recording a sample will do the trick? I've got hundreds of songs that I keep almost excusively on vinyl (for that pure, uncut, warm sound that mp3 slices away) that I want to find the keys for?
Shot dawg!
Smithers
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
03-05-2009
Hi DJ Smithers,
There is a database of vinyl records, you can check it out
here
. If you decide to only record a sample of each track though, the longer the sample the better. I personally wouldn't recommend using less than two minutes of the main melody for accurate results.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
Nomic
03-10-2009
Hello all,
I just started mixing about five months ago and it has become a new love of mine. since I'm so new to this Please forgive the newb questions.
My favorite type of tracks are trance and pregressive. Now I know that most good trance sets usually build up, keep you there for a while and then slowly bring you back down. I guess my question is this. How can I use the wheel after energy boosting to slowly bring the energy down a little? If I were moving clockwise, would I gradually start moving counter clockwise to have this effect?
Thanks so much for all you help. I've been looking for a forum like this for a while.
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
03-10-2009
How can I use the wheel after energy boosting to slowly bring the energy down a little?
Just do the opposite of an energy boost, mixing down -7 or -2 spaces on the Camelot wheel.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
DJ Cojac
03-20-2009
So I was wondering if/why the harmonic mixing print out list would be good for someone like me who has all his music loaded up in serato. Other than having a giant list of songs with their respective keys listed.
Thanks
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
03-20-2009
Hi DJ Cojac,
Printing out a list may not be useful for DJs in your situation, or it might. It all depends on how you prefer to work.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
duartepedro
04-15-2009
Hi still not understanding the Energy boost mixing
i found one playlist on famous girl dj Chloe Harris and i put the tracks on the mixed in key and the results is that
9A
8A
6A
5A
5A
8A
7A
4A
2A
3A
11A
6A
11A
Ok my question is the sequence is correct? because to me the mix is perfect and not clash
i read the forum and i never can play 8A to 6A and 5A to 8A and 3A to 11A and 6A to 11A
I read only 2 semitones or 7 semitone or -7 -2 semitones ....etc...in the forum
Read too ...if you're in 8A, would the compatible choices be 7A,8A,8B,9A,10A, 3A, but absolutely NOT 6A, and 1A? ")
the famous dj Chloe Harris play wrong or have more possibilities in the Camelot Easymix ...
you can help me
Tank you
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
04-15-2009
Hi,
Good question, I am happy to help. I think it is important to use harmonic mixing as a start for ideas and suggestions. They are not hard and fast rules that must be obeyed for a mix to sound good. Sometimes two tracks will sound great together even if they are not in harmonically related keys. This is part of the creative process, in music you can do whatever you want, although sometimes you might be the only person who thinks it sounds good ;)
For more harmonic mixing possibilities, check out my chart
here
.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
winwin
04-15-2009
more or less precisely what i been doing for ages .
MIK is a great innovation , can detect more than the
ear can do ,as it never gets tired .
Great tool ,saves a lot of the ear digging .
and when you disagree with it , easy to do your
own .
I do all pre selections with real player plus ,
then of course its a lenghty process to MIK and
pn the pre selection , but results are really good .
and thats what matters .
If you have a good ear , this combination beats
any other I came across ... so far .
Reply
duartepedro
04-17-2009
Hi Chad P nice support now i can make my mix very good...
Best Regards
Reply
TomMarvel
05-01-2009
This forum and M.I.K has made such a huge impact on me. I almost gave up hope. You Rock.
Reply
TomMarvel
05-06-2009
Hello,
I have a mix that sounds totally amazing that I have to tell you all about.
Starting with High Contrast - Twilights Last Gleaming adding Generation Dub - Voodoo Doll at the right time makes it feel like the two songs were made to go together. They break to give each other time for vocals and double drop all on there own. I love it so much I often shed a tear. May be relief that the mix hasn't gone tits up.
Now Twilights is 11B - A Major and Voodoo is 3A - B Flat Minor. Its works very well but I'm not sure why.
I understand that an A Major is the 5th pitch in the B Flat Harmonic Minor Scale.
Is it that simple?
ALSO, guuuuuuuuuys is there search function on this forum?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
05-06-2009
I have a mix that sounds totally amazing that I have to tell you all about.
Starting with High Contrast - Twilights Last Gleaming adding Generation Dub - Voodoo Doll at the right time makes it feel like the two songs were made to go together. They break to give each other time for vocals and double drop all on there own. I love it so much I often shed a tear. May be relief that the mix hasn't gone tits up.
Ok, by the Mixed In Key by-laws if you describe a mix in words you must post a recording of this mix. Especially this one, we're big fans of High Contrast ;)
Now Twilights is 11B - A Major and Voodoo is 3A - B Flat Minor. Its works very well but I'm not sure why. I understand that an A Major is the 5th pitch in the B Flat Harmonic Minor Scale.
Is it that simple?
I think one of those tracks is being falsely reported as major or minor. It is more likely that Twilights Last Gleaming is 11A, or F-sharp minor. Your jump is now a major third, which is usually a good harmonic mix. Check out my advanced chart
here
for more possibilities.
ALSO, guuuuuuuuuys is there search function on this forum?
You can search this site using the following formula in Google:
"search term" site:community.mixedinkey.com
Reply
TomMarvel
05-07-2009
I do believe I have just had my wrists cyber-slapped. :-) I will post the mix very soon. I'm excited about you guys hearing it. I'm also a huge HC fan. Id happily play a whole set of his stuff every night of the week.
The wrong identification of the key could prove to be a bit of a nightmare. Any idea's why that has happened?
Thanks for the spreadsheet and the Google tip, very helpful.
Keep rocking.
T
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
05-08-2009
The wrong identification of the key could prove to be a bit of a nightmare. Any idea's why that has happened?
Detecting musical keys is a subjective process, and when the difference is between relative major/minor it can be little more than an educated guess. The key here is not to treat the key codes as a hard and fast rule that must be followed all of the time. Experiment! If you think two tracks will sound good together but they are reported out of key, great, try it! As you've already discovered, going with your gut can yield spectacular results.
Can't wait to hear the mix, please tell me you like Ben Sage too and will mix in some of his stuff! I really could use some more good melodic harmonically mixed dnb ;)
Reply
geever
06-05-2009
SO what do you call A +5 mixing? i swear i read somewhere that you can power mix adding 5.. ie (A7 + 5= A12)
so is this wrong??
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-06-2009
SO what do you call A +5 mixing? i swear i read somewhere that you can power mix adding 5.. ie (A7 + 5= A12)
so is this wrong??
I hesitate to call anything in music wrong, since it is art. The mix you described is actually lowering the energy though since the new key is a half-step lower than the starting key.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
yousifq8
06-29-2009
hi .. im starting with A8 to A1 it is possible ??
Reply
middleman
06-29-2009
Hey... something i'm wondering....
what would everybody say is the most energetic key.... a place to stay for a while to create tension during the peak time of your Dj set?
Thanks...Middleman ;) x
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-29-2009
im starting with A8 to A1 it is possible ??
Anything is possible. If it sounds good to you, go for it.
Reply
yousifq8
06-30-2009
thanks a lot man im new with mik .. and if i add 7 from 8A it will be in 2A ?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-30-2009
if i add 7 from 8A it will be in 2A ?
Not quite, you would be in 3A.
Reply
DJ edgy
07-12-2009
Hi,
I just got MIK the other week and while I have not had alot of time to spend with it, I have had a quick muck around in virtual DJ and what difference it makes!! Now to go through and make key notes in my CD wallet...
My question is in regards to going up ONE semitone you add "7" to the number of the key your in... but what if you are at say 11A ?? does this mean if you move clockwise around the chamelot wheel 7 positions to 6A you will be in a "compatible" key?
Sorry if that sounds like a noob question... but I couldn't see my answer anywhere in this thread..
cheers
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
07-12-2009
My question is in regards to going up ONE semitone you add "7" to the number of the key your in... but what if you are at say 11A ?? does this mean if you move clockwise around the chamelot wheel 7 positions to 6A you will be in a "compatible" key?
That is exactly correct.
Reply
Luis
07-20-2009
How does you people label the cds with harmonic mixing in mind.
Do you have a methodology?
Thanks
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
07-21-2009
Hi,
Thanks for posting, this thread has been discussed in great detail
here
.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
Mr. M
08-05-2009
Maybe somebody can give example of the tracks name for this energy boosting. or make short mix and put here. bicause i don't feel any energy boosting. :(
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
08-05-2009
I did an energy boost mix in a trance mix I posted
here
. It's the second to last mix, 'Eye of the Vortex' by Der Mystik - 11A into 'Untame Me feat. Marcie' by Ali Wilson - 1A.
Shameless self promotion - I'm still proud of the first few transitions on this one, I think they mixed really well :)
Reply
Tulbure
09-08-2009
I wouldn't call "Axwell - Feel The Vibe" a classic house song. It's just electro-house :)
Reply
Sabby
10-04-2009
Hey,
I've been finding tracklists of famous DJs to see what good songs they play in their sets; so I can buy the songs from Beatport. However, I sometimes run into an awkward tracklist. I found a tracklist by Sasha which consisted of these songs:
Mistral (Anton Pieete Remix) - John Selway & Christian Smith (5A)
Angels Die - Enrique Saiz & Marc Marzenit (8A)
Look Around - Tomcraft (5A)
I understand that 8A = A Minor and 5A = C Minor.
Can these songs be harmonically mixed, because apparently Sasha mixed them in his set?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
10-06-2009
I understand that 8A = A Minor and 5A = C Minor.
Can these songs be harmonically mixed, because apparently Sasha mixed them in his set?
Absolutely, this is what is called a minor third:
Reply
Luis
10-28-2009
Which key to start, Is there any specified key to start a mix, for example if I am going to open a set at the very beginning of the night, is there any suggestion on that?
What other steps can I do on the harmonic mixing
I understood the following
If I start in 5A, I can to to 5B, 4A, 6A, or also 7A for energy boost or 10A will also boost the mix
Any other combination that I can use?
Thanks
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
10-29-2009
Which key to start, Is there any specified key to start a mix, for example if I am going to open a set at the very beginning of the night, is there any suggestion on that?
Choose whatever you want for your first track. It might help to have at least the first couple of tracks you're going to play picked out ahead of time, then see how the crowd reacts and spin accordingly.
Any other combination that I can use?
There's lots of other combinations that will work with varying degrees of success depending on the tracks. Take a look at the post immediately before yours.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
Dj Reestos
11-10-2009
So is it possible to do a minor third mix if im in a major key? or vice versa? or does minor third mixing only apply if your in a minor key, and major third mixing in a major key?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
11-10-2009
So is it possible to do a minor third mix if im in a major key? or vice versa?
Absolutely. The minor/major third refers to a musical interval, for our purposes the distance between the root notes of our keys. A minor third has three semitones distance, and a major third has 4. For example, from C major a minor third would be E-flat major, a major third would be E major.
Reply
Echo
11-20-2009
Hey Yakov, Chad,
Will Energy Boost Mixing work on a drop-mixing set of non-dance eclectic music?
Reply
Andriska005
11-21-2009
http://www.myspace.com/tomniel
Reply
Echo
11-22-2009
The 3% Rule; Tried & Tested!
Someone may have done this before but I tried a little experiment using VDJ. With the Keylock off, I recorded a one minute clip from the middle of a tune with the pitch at 0. Starting from the same cue point each time and increasing the pitch by 1% (or as close to 1% as I possibly could get) I recorded 12 more one minute clips. Then decreasing the pitch from 0 by 1% at a time I recorded a further 12 clips.
So I ended up with 25 one minute clips at 1% intervals, which I then put through my MIK programme to get the key results. Here's what happened:
The track, Son of Raw - Black Man In Space [Sax Mix] was in 4A
The one minute clip also came back as 4A;
Below are the results in linear order;
-12.1% - 2A or 3A - 110.74
-11.1% - 7A or 2A - 111.97
-10% - 2A - 113.45
-9% - 2A - 114.68
-8% - 10A - 115.92
-7% - 10A - 117.15
-6.1% - 12B - 118.37
-5.1% - 9A - 119.6
-4.1% - 9A - 120.82
-3.1% - 9A or 8A - 122.07
-2% - 4A - 123.54
-1% - 4A - 124.76
0% - 4A - 126
+1% - 4A - 127.22
+2% - 4A - 128.46
+3.1% - 4A or 11A - 129.92
+4.1% - 11A - 131.17
+5.1% - 11A - 132.38
+6.1% - 11A - 133.62
+7% - 11A - 134.85
+8% - 11A - 136.09
+9% - 11A - 137.32
+10% - 7A - 138.55
+11.1% - 6A - 140.04
+12.1% - 6A - 141.26
For me the results are pretty good. I would rarely have to (or want to) increase/decrease a tune by any more than plus/minus 5%. And almost everything within that spectrum on this example is spot on. (with the exception of "-3.1% - 9A or 8A" which is pretty close anyway)
I know "-6.1% - 12B - 118.37" makes no sense as it dictates a change from minor to major, but I suspect that has more to do with the dreadful distorted sound of a saxaphone being slowed down by over 6% it's natural tempo.
Anyway, this experiment has helped me understand the 3% Rule a little better, hopefully it will be helpful to someone else.
I plan to do a similar experiment with a track that has two keys to see what happens!
Reply
dhaval
11-27-2009
Hi ,
Now if have 2 tracks with the same key for eg 10A.Track 1 125.00 track 2 132.00 .Wouldnt the key change to a major if i were to slow it down? and hence sound very very distorted with all the clashes possible.
As suggested in the forum i tried playing a couple of tracks with same key to build the set up with out major changes but it didnt sound harmonic at all and thats y the above question.For eg in a folder there is a min diff of 0.7-6.0 between bpms of the same key.What would be the best wayto go about it or is there a way ?
Cheers
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
11-27-2009
Now if have 2 tracks with the same key for eg 10A.Track 1 125.00 track 2 132.00 .Wouldnt the key change to a major if i were to slow it down?
You can never change a song from minor to major by changing the tempo.
and hence sound very very distorted with all the clashes possible.
It will sound off because the slowed down track will now be in the key of 3A.
As suggested in the forum i tried playing a couple of tracks with same key to build the set up with out major changes but it didnt sound harmonic at all and thats y the above question.For eg in a folder there is a min diff of 0.7-6.0 between bpms of the same key.
A minimum difference of .7-6.0% is quite a large range. Remember, anything over 3% will now be closer to +/-7 on the Camelot Wheel.
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neoyoung
12-02-2009
Hi there,
I have a question. I understand the part of Harmonic mixing completely except the pitching part.
For example;
I play track XXX in deck A on 125 BPM. The track itself is also 125 BPM.
I play track YYY in deck B on 125 BPM, but the track itself is 120 BMP.
Does the Harmonic mixing still counts? Because I was reading this topic, and as far I could see the keycode is changing when your pitching up or down a track. If it does change, it takes a hell of a lot to calculate when your mixing...
Let me know.
EDIT:
I use Traktor Pro for mixing. If the above is true, and it looks like it, does it help to put the Keylock on? If I put Keylock on it doesn't change the keycode does it?
Thanx, Piter
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Chad P (Mixed In Key)
12-02-2009
I use Traktor Pro for mixing. If the above is true, and it looks like it, does it help to put the Keylock on? If I put Keylock on it doesn't change the keycode does it?
That is exactly what keylock is for.
Reply
neoyoung
12-02-2009
Thanx Chad!
As you probably know the 'keylock' option in Traktor is still questioned, because it can make the music stutter. Beside this I don't know a lot of DJ's want to work with it, because it changes the track, doesn't it? I mean; if you pitch up a track, it should sound faster anyway shouldn't it?
So then; if you don't turn on 'keylock' it does takes a lot of calculating?
On CDJ's the button 'Master Tempo' is the same function as the 'keylock' option in Traktor?
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BenDeRa
12-10-2009
hey, i have bought mixed in key and platinum notes for mac, i jsut have some general questions
so after all files are analyzed..... i should mix songs with same number (ex 2a with 2a , or with 2b)?
i dont get you on how to raise the energy, i thought to raise energy i should go from 2a to 3a- to 4a and so on, but siad to go by 7 like form 2a to 9a? why skip so much?
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
12-11-2009
so after all files are analyzed..... i should mix songs with same number (ex 2a with 2a , or with 2b)?
Yep, the basic principle is explained on our webpage
here
.
i dont get you on how to raise the energy, i thought to raise energy i should go from 2a to 3a- to 4a and so on, but siad to go by 7 like form 2a to 9a? why skip so much?
This does seem confusing until you look at the way that the Camelot Wheel relates to the piano keyboard. Check out the image I uploaded
here
and it should make a little bit more sense to you.
Cheers,
Chad P
Reply
BenDeRa
12-11-2009
i still didnt understand how to raise energy, i got the part that i cna mix same keys or +or - 1, also i got the part that 2a and 2b can be mxied too for example, but i still dont know about raising the energy ven though read what you have sent me ....can u give me examples, like if i am in 2a, 3a, 2b, 3b, 4b, 4a..... where i got next tor aise energy, maybe than i ll get these staff, sorry for this question
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
12-11-2009
How-To
Here is how to use it: Detect the key of your current song, and pick the next song to be 1 or 2 semitones above it.
Does this translate to Camelot numbers?
Yes. To go up one semitone, add 7 to your current Camelot number. If you're in E-flat Minor (2A), add 7 and you'll be in E Minor (9A).
To go up two semitones, just add 2 to your current Camelot number. If you're in C Minor (5A), add 2 and you'll get D Minor (7A). Play your next tune in 7A, and you'll experience an energy boost mix.
Reply
BenDeRa
12-11-2009
thanks, now i got you
so 2 semitones means more energy boost than one semitone>
also when going form minor to major like 2a to 2b, is there energy boost too?
thanks for help
Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
12-16-2009
so 2 semitones means more energy boost than one semitone
Yep, pretty much. A single semitone increase slightly changes the vibe, where as a two semitone boost definitely increases the energy.
also when going form minor to major like 2a to 2b, is there energy boost too?
Not exactly, it's more of a vibe changer than it is an energy boost.
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