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Homepage > Mixed In Key - Harmonic Mixing Software > MIK3 doesn't write ID3 tags to m4a?


Post: MIK3 doesn't write ID3 tags to m4a?
DiscoPoelie
10-26-2007
 Hello people

This week I bought Mixed In Key, and it seems as a very handy thingy in my toolbox.

But:

After analyzing my whole collection, and then reading the ID3 tags in traktor scratch only MP3 files will show Key information. M4A tracks do not show any key info in traktor.

I researched it a bit, and it seems that traktor is perfectly able to read/write the InitalKey argument in a M4A file's ID3 tag. So I think MIK3 is messing up? Is this a known problem? Is there anything else I should look at?

Using latest version of MIK (3.0.1), and Mac OS 10.4.10. Traktor Scratch 1.1.

Greetz
 		Reply
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
10-26-2007
 Hi,

Patrick and I talked about it before -- it is correct that Mixed In Key does not write M4A tags now. We will add support for them soon. Thanks for the suggestion, and stay tuned for a free update with this feature.

-Yakov 		Reply
Marqitos
11-09-2007
 Wow, 90% of my collection is .m4a. When do you anticipate having an update that supports writing ID3 tags into .m4a files?

Marc Rosenberg
QA/Support Manager
www.esession.com 		Reply
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
11-10-2007
 Hi Marc,

I responded by email, but I'll repost here as well. Our goal is to add .M4A ID3 tag support in Version 3.1 for Mac OS X. It's on our upcoming feature list.


Thanks!
Yakov 		Reply
Patrick (MIK/Mac)
11-10-2007
 @Marqitos
The main problem with tags in AAC/m4a files is that the tag format is not publicly available (or, put differently: Apple keeps it a secret). As a result there is no direct way to update these tags. Such are the perils of vendor lock-in.

Currently the only workarounds are to a) use obscure, reverse-engineered third party tools or b) tell iTunes to change the tags for us, which is quite clumsy.

We may choose either route, but only when Apple opens up the format will we be able to provide a solution that is both robust and elegant. If you want this feature (you're not alone...) be sure to petition them too ;-) 		Reply
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
11-10-2007
 Hi,

Sorry, didn't realize that it wasn't technically possible. I'll talk with Patrick and we'll see if we can license third-party software.


All the best,
Yakov 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
11-10-2007
 This might be a bit of a pain, but Itunes has an mp3 converter under the "advanced" tab. It could work for a temporary work around to just convert your collection to mp3 until Apple gets off the high horse : ) Reply
Patrick (MIK/Mac)
11-11-2007
 My hunch is that they keep the AAC tag format secret because AAC is their DRM format too. For obvious reasons they want to discourage third party tools modifying DRM'ed files; that could easily become a support nightmare. Alas, until they stop selling songs with DRM there probably isn't much hope for easy AAC tag writing... Reply
Blast Master D
12-06-2007
 I've just petitioned them.

Tight bastards! 		Reply
Blast Master D
12-06-2007
 My email from the address you gave bounced back. Do you have an updated email path? Reply
Blast Master D
02-15-2008
 Was this issue ever resolved??? Reply
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
02-17-2008
 Hi,

Not yet -- we can't update M4A tags, but we are looking for ways to bypass this format limitation. We've gotten a few suggestions on how to do it best and we are investigating our options. 		Reply
meatface
03-06-2008
 I think i figured something out using perl and apple script. it's not ready for prime time though. Reply
Justin
06-11-2008
 I really hope this gets fixed soon because I have TONS of .m4a files in my library, and although they are un-protected, it is taking forever to convert them all to mp3 and is a real hassle. I love the Mixed in key software, though. Just this one hangup... Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-12-2008
 Hi,

I just brought this up with our programmers last week. The problem is in finding a solution that works properly and won't get us sued. Apple keeps their m4a formatting very secret, and it seems that we can't work with it without their permission and assistance. If something changes, we'll let you know.

Best,

Chad 		Reply
Blast Master D
06-14-2008
 How about just writing the results straight to the collection. I use Traktor. Could you not just update the Traktor collection file directly without having to touch the actual M4A tags themselves? Reply
DJ G Mint
03-03-2009
 I just bought MIK too and was disappointed to find that I can't write key info directly to AAC files for use in Traktor. Have you guys considered AtomicParsley (http://atomicparsley.sourceforge.net/)? I know it worked wonders for another software I use (kJams)... Reply
DJ G Mint
03-07-2009
 @Chad P

You stated:

"I just brought this up with our programmers last week. The problem is in finding a solution that works properly and won't get us sued. Apple keeps their m4a formatting very secret, and it seems that we can't work with it without their permission and assistance. If something changes, we'll let you know."

This was nearly 9 months ago. Perhaps you could elaborate on your previous post as there certainly must have been some developments since that time. Also, Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that m4a is an ISO Standard, not proprietary technology. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_14). I don't want to accuse your developers of misinforming you, but it certainly seems that there is some misunderstanding here.

As I posted elsewhere, I bought this software because it was advertised as working with MP4/AAC and Traktor. Needless to say, I was disappointed to find that this was only half true.

AAC is hardly a marginal format. Say what you want, but AAC has more forward momentum than ANY competing format—MP3 included Also I find the suggestion that people transcode their AAC tracks to MP3 to use MIK somewhat insulting. You guys are obviously smart people, you know that this will result in quality degradation. Perhaps instead of suggesting that hundreds (thousands?) of users spend countless hours transcoding tracks, your developers could put forth a serious effort to make this much needed functionality happen...

I think MIK is awesome software. Unfortunately, that makes it all the more frustrating that I can't use it on the 5K or so AAC tracks that are in my collection. Please fix this.
 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
03-07-2009
 Hi DJ G Mint,


Thanks for posting, I can certainly understand your frustration. We do take customer feedback seriously here, and have made note of the requests for .MP4 file tagging. To address some of your specific concerns:

This was nearly 9 months ago. Perhaps you could elaborate on your previous post as there certainly must have been some developments since that time.

There most certainly have been developments, just not in this specific area. We launched Mixed In Key 4.0, Platinum Notes 2.5, and are working on various other projects as well.


I don't want to accuse your developers of misinforming you, but it certainly seems that there is some misunderstanding here.

I'm sure that if our developers had a solution that they were confident would work for all concerned we would add this feature.


Also I find the suggestion that people transcode their AAC tracks to MP3 to use MIK somewhat insulting.

I usually don't suggest people transcode their files, unless they have DRM protection, in which case the only way to edit the file is to transcode it. I suggest that they purchase their songs from DJ friendly music sites that don't use proprietary file encoding formats or use iTunes to update the tag info for them: http://community.mixedinkey.com/Topic.aspx?ID=5553


Cheers,
Chad P 		Reply
DJ G Mint
03-10-2009
 Chad,

Thank you for your reply. I'm not sure if we're on the same page here, but again, MP4 is a standard. We're (at least I'm) not asking for MIK to work with FairPlay DRMed files. There are numerous applications that support writing to MP4 tags on the market (including Traktor) so it very clearly CAN be done. Perhaps writing the specific Key tag that Traktor is using would be a bit more challenging, but at this point, it would be better than nothing if the key could just be written to the comments...

Again, I appreciate your reply and your suggested workaround, but it really does seem like maybe your development team just needs a bit more of a push to get this done. I don't want to rub you the wrong way, but I do find that maxim that "the squeaky wheel gets the most grease" does tend to apply as far as software development is concerned. And, since I think that MIK seems to be pretty much perfect in all other respects, you can probably see what my motivation is here... 		Reply
kachris
03-11-2009
 sorry, but my english is not as good as DJ G Mint's. so i can't write such a good text with all that truly facts, but i'm also waiting every day (!) for an update thats fixes this problem. Something has to happen eventually!
 		Reply
GWriter
03-15-2009
 I don't mean to pile on here but I bought MiK six months ago and have been waiting ever since for this function. My entire music collection (13,500+ tracks) is in m4a format so transcoding is not an option.

I really do not understand what is taking the time. 		Reply
DJ G Mint
03-16-2009
 Yeah, like I said I haven't heard any legitimate explanation as to what the hold up is here. There's really no technical reason why this can't be done. I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread or another thread, but I use another software where the single developer was having an issue with writing to MP4 tags. I suggested that he check out AtomicParsley and it literally took him ONE DAY to implement tag MP4 tag writing in his software (a karaoke software). He later indicated that it was about the easiest thing he had ever done.

I'm not a programmer, so I'm sure there could be other factors at work that I don't see, but I haven't heard anything other than vague excuses at this point... 		Reply
Yakov (Mixed In Key)
03-16-2009
 Hi everyone,

I understand your frustration that Mixed In Key does not update AAC meta data. You are right that it should.

Here is some background on our team: I am the lead developer for all Windows versions, and Patrick is the lead developer for Mac OS X. We work on Mixed In Key-related projects every week, but we usually focus on different functionality. Our TO-DO list is massive, and I have been hiring new developers to speed up our release schedule.

Over the last few months, AAC support has reached the top of our TO-DO list. It is next in-line to be developed fully.

We care about your feedback and I will get AAC working properly.


All the best,
Yakov 		Reply
DJ G Mint
03-18-2009
 Yakov,

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your efforts and your already outstanding software. Although I'm sure I will eventually think of something else to be a thorn in your side about :) I think MIK will be pretty much perfect for me once AAC support is in!

Thanks again! 		Reply
GWriter
03-19-2009
 I will add my thanks for the explanation and for prioritizing this feature. I look forward to seeing it in an upcoming release. Reply
DEE'JC
04-02-2009
 I am waiting to update from 3.1 and the only thing stopping me is this issue, Looking forward to the update soon.
Keep up the great work, Thanks 		Reply
DJ Suicide Dive
04-28-2009
 Doh .. I am just in the process of re-ripping all my 160/192kbit MP3's to 256kbit AAC. So I guess I can hold off with MIK for now :(

Interestingly I have noticed that if I let iTunes replace the MP3 with the AAC version it does preserve the tag information as much as possible, this includes the key information in the comment tag. Not really a solution, but this way some of my re-ripped songs in AAC format now have key information.

At any rate, the days of DRM are over in iTunes and as others have pointed out, AAC is an open standard anyways and Apple just added their DRM on top of the standard. 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
04-28-2009
 I am just in the process of re-ripping all my 160/192kbit MP3's to 256kbit AAC. So I guess I can hold off with MIK for now :(


I'm not sure that this is necessary. Low quality MP3 files will still sound like low quality MP3 files if you convert them into AAC. The only way to improve the quality of low bit rate files is through dynamics processing, such as that found in our Platinum Notes program.


At any rate, the days of DRM are over in iTunes and as others have pointed out, AAC is an open standard anyways and Apple just added their DRM on top of the standard.

Yes, and it's about time iTunes got rid of DRM. We are looking into adding AAC tag support for future versions of both Mixed In Key and Platinum Notes.


Cheers,
Chad P


 		Reply
DJ Suicide Dive
04-29-2009
 I am re-ripping my CD's of course and not reencoding the same MP3's to AAC .. which as you point out would make little sense. Reply
DEE'JC
05-04-2009
 DRM is now gone from iTunes completely .. all files are now DRM free.
Do you have any idea exactly when we will see MIK write AAC file tags ? 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
05-04-2009
 Do you have any idea exactly when we will see MIK write AAC file tags?

Probably later this year when we release Version 5.0. I really can't be more specific than that, we typically don't set release dates as there are too many variables to make an accurate prediction. 		Reply
Malsale
05-07-2009
 I'm waiting for the tag writing feature for AAC format as well. I don't use mp3 anymore.

Can't wait to get the next update! 		Reply
frustrateduser
06-15-2009
 Hi MIK,
I loved your software until I realised it wont work with my itunes tunes! It has now become useless as I have over 1500 (ACC) tracks. could you please sort this out asap as I've been waiting over a year. In the meantime does anyone know of any other programs that detect the key of ACC files? x 		Reply
Real SysOp
06-30-2009
 Hi frustrateduser,

i only can agree with you, the support really messed up this one....

To get a brief history read this:
http://community.mixedinkey.com/Topic.aspx?ID=5395


You asked for another software that can detect the key of aac files. As far as i know "Rapid Evolution" can do just that.
It also supports wrtiting the traktor-key-tag-field, and its free! 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-30-2009
 FYI - AAC support already exists for the Mac version, and will be added to the PC version in version 5.0. We will also be adding the ability to write to the tags of these files.

 		Reply
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07-06-2009
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Kaz
07-08-2009
 Not a happy customer as of present, it doesn't state on your site that it cannot write the tags. That means pretty much all of my music collection can't be written.... you're saying it will be in the next version but I am not willing to have to pay for a new version when the original should of had this basic feature or at least advertised that it did not!? Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
07-08-2009
 Hi Kaz,


You are more than welcome to request a refund and re-purchase after 5.0 comes out. In our defense I took this screenshot from our website:

Photobucket
 		Reply
Kaz
07-08-2009
 In principle I think the software is great, its a real shame. Im going to give it a few more days and see if I can cope otherwise I might respectfully take up the offer. Reply
DEE'JC
07-23-2009
 i have 3.1 mac version it doesn't seem to write these tags on my iTunes downloaded files :

Chad P (Mixed In Key)
06-30-2009
FYI - AAC support already exists for the Mac version, and will be added to the PC version in version 5.0. We will also be adding the ability to write to the tags of these files. 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
07-23-2009
 I'm sorry if you misunderstood my post, but by support I meant we can read and detect the keys of these files. We will be adding the ability to write to the tags of these files in the next update.


Best,
Chad P 		Reply
BigBeatz
08-03-2009
 Does anyone know about a temporary workaround such as using a third party software to write the tags? I really don't have the time to manually tag thousands of tracks :(

If anyone has used a software that takes the keys from MIK and writes them to the lossless audio files, please let everyone else know about it!

Thanks a lot 		Reply
BigBeatz
08-03-2009
 I've just found this forum, the 2nd tip is a perfect workaround. It saves so much time so for now, use this if you need to write lossless tags!

http://community.mixedinkey.com/Topic.aspx?ID=5553 		Reply
DEE'JC
10-01-2009
 any news on this ?
July seems to be the last update ... 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
10-01-2009
 We are currently working on adding this functionality to the Platinum Notes 3.0 beta, which should be out by the end of October if all goes well. Once we are sure that AAC tagging is working correctly we will probably be adding it to the 5.0 release of Mixed In Key.


Cheers,
Chad P 		Reply
michael.c
11-29-2009
 Hi Chad,

In one of your posts, you state "I'm sorry if you misunderstood my post, but by support I meant we can read and detect the keys of these files. We will be adding the ability to write to the tags of these files in the next update."

I understand MIK cannot currently re-write these files, but how/where can I see what the key/bpm is so that I can manually write them?

Thanks

Michael.C 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
11-30-2009
 I understand MIK cannot currently re-write these files, but how/where can I see what the key/bpm is so that I can manually write them?

You should be able to see this info in the "Browse Collection" pane of the MIK program. If you're using iTunes, you can use a trick to do batch updates, it's #2 here.


Cheers,
Chad P 		Reply
Grimmbaland
01-17-2010
 Hi, I bought MIK some Days ago and i'm very happy with it. But i really miss the AAC-Support you promised!

Okay, MIK can read the files but the opportunity to write the Keys into the Metadata is still missing!

I'm not very happy with writing all the Tags hand by hand to my itunes library.... 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
01-18-2010
 It's looking good for AAC tagging support in the 5.0 upgrade. We have successfully been copying tags from AAC files into MP3 ID3 tags in our current Platinum Notes beta, so it should work well. In the mean time, you can use iTunes to write the key to multiple tracks at a time using the work around here.


Cheers,
Chad P 		Reply
bozolino
01-25-2010
 dear developers,

i'm really sorry but this thread is simply sad.

traktor has supported aac tag read/write for YEARS, and so do dozens of other apps.

you guys have been making PROMISES for years - and never delivered.

all this talk about secret file formats and license ristriction is - pardon my french - mere nonsense. how did these other guys manage to implement their aac support then? reverse engineering? rocket science? buying trade secrets off NASA? come on!

your product is nicely designed and engineered, but your consistent inability to implement such a "vanilla" feature and live up to all your promises in this thread leaves me speechless. 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
01-25-2010
 I agree, an update to Mixed In Key with this feature is long overdue. A big thanks to the patience of the community is in order.


Best,
Chad P 		Reply
overtimeman
02-01-2010
 Since 2007? Good lord!

Okay - might I suggest that, when you eventually do produce this, you also bundle it with a function that will find all the m4a tracks in your MIK library and update them so we don't have to work our way back through our collections to locate the m4a files? 		Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
02-01-2010
 That's a good possibility overtimeman. I'm pushing for a feature that will allow any changes in preferences to be applied to the entire collection without having to rescan the files. It should be a useful feature for new users who haven't decided which field works best for them.


Cheers,
Chad P 		Reply
overtimeman
02-01-2010
 Hi Chad - sounds like a good starting point for what I suggest. So long as it could be selective so you get "Copy library key to InitialKey for m4a only" then we're in business. Reply
Chad P (Mixed In Key)
02-01-2010
 m4a files do not have an InitialKey tag, so you'll still have to use the comments, artist, or song field unless some sort of hack or new tagging standard is developed between now and then. Reply
overtimeman
02-05-2010
 Thanks for the clarification - I understand the issue you have. However, Scratch Live does seem to be able to store this information as I can manually enter the Key data in that software and it will remain in place.

I'm not suggesting you make MIK a Serato-focussed application of course - just noting that there do seem to be ways around this which are transparent to the user (surely the most important thing). 		Reply



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