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Chad (MIK Mod)
Overview Transposing is the act of changing the key of a song to another key. For the DJ, transposing can be achieved by changing the tempo or by using software tools like Ableton Live and Traktor. This tutorial will be covering the second method. How-To Detect the key of your track, and then locate it on the chart below. The first row of numbers correspond to the inner ring of the Camelot Wheel, the minor keys, and the second row of numbers correspond to the outer wheel, the major keys. Photobucket Once you've located the key of your song on the chart, count the number of keys that it takes to get to the key you want to transpose to. For example, if we want to transpose a track that is in 11A (F sharp minor) to 8A (A minor) we would turn our transpose or key knob to a setting of +3. If you are transposing a track that is is in the key of 10A (B minor) and want to get to 5A (C minor) you would just add one semitone. Think of the keyboard as repeating on either side of the image above, and count as normal. Audio Quality Transposing can be a great way to get two songs that normally wouldn't mix together to mesh, but every key that a song is transposed will result in more audio artifacts that will color the sound. Always use the least amount of transposition possible to get to a compatible key. Bonus Hint Sometimes you can mix major and minor songs that have the same rootnote, like 5A (C minor) and 8B (C major). Try it out when you're experimenting, it can create an interesting effect. Cheers, Chad P
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Leon B
thx for the explanation :) two questions: 1- When we use PN .. and the software corrects the pitch of the track, its says for example "Increased by 17 cents" .. the thing is, if i use the original track (the one that has not been healed by PN) in Ableton, and i use "Detune" (17 ct), would i get the same result? (in the change of the pitch). 2- Lets say i have a track in 10A .. i use transpose -1 i and i will get a 3A. The problem is that sometimes if i analize this new file ("3A") in MIK it might says that the track is in 10A or for example 4A.. in this case what should i do ? should i use the track as a 3A (becouse of the 10A -1st) or use the key that MIK is telling me the new file is in (4A)? (this only happends with lets say a 5% of the tracks)
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Chad (MIK Mod)
1- When we use PN .. and the software corrects the pitch of the track, its says for example "Increased by 17 cents" .. the thing is, if i use the original track (the one that has not been healed by PN) in Ableton, and i use "Detune" (17 ct), would i get the same result? (in the change of the pitch). Yes, the detune knob in Ableton uses the same measurement. 100 cents is one semitone. 2- Lets say i have a track in 10A .. i use transpose -1 i and i will get a 3A. The problem is that sometimes if i analize this new file ("3A") in MIK it might says that the track is in 10A or for example 4A.. in this case what should i do ? should i use the track as a 3A (becouse of the 10A -1st) or use the key that MIK is telling me the new file is in (4A)? (this only happends with lets say a 5% of the tracks) You should use 3A. This is for the same reason that we always recommend that people ripping vinyl do it at 0 pitch adjustment. Mixed In Key's accuracy will always be higher with originally recorded material. Cheers, Chad P
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Rocdollar
Useful post! I posted a tip for creating a camelot quick reference system to help you make live, in key (via transposition) selections. It's in this post:- http://community.mixedinkey.com/Topic.aspx?ID=6569 Hope it helps!
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Tapio K
Hi, Is it possible to detune a track (in my case an acapella) from 10B to 10A. It sounds almost harmonic but there's some weird parts when played in sync with the backing 10A track. Cheers for these posts. They're most insightful and inspring for making edits etc. Tapio
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Chad (MIK Mod)
Is it possible to detune a track (in my case an acapella) from 10B to 10A? Impossible. You can tune it down 3 semitones to B Major, 1B, but definitely not to B minor, 10A.
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mayank
Hi, I was curious as to how adding/subtracting a fraction of a semitone affects the key in terms of transposition. For example, if there is a tune A with a key code of 7A and a tune B with a key code of 12A and in order to harmonically mix these without affecting the audio artifacts too much, in theory adding 50 cents to tune B and decrementing 50 cents from tune A should get the two in key, correct? Now if we want to mix in another tune C with a key code of 7A into tune B, would it still be enharmonic? Basically, I am interested in how the key changes when the changes are in terms of cents only and how this can be applied in harmonic mixing generally. Thanks!
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Chad (MIK Mod)
For example, if there is a tune A with a key code of 7A and a tune B with a key code of 12A and in order to harmonically mix these without affecting the audio artifacts too much, in theory adding 50 cents to tune B and decrementing 50 cents from tune A should get the two in key, correct? In theory, yes, that should work. Now if we want to mix in another tune C with a key code of 7A into tune B, would it still be enharmonic? It would probably be half a semitone off, which depending on the actual songs may or may not be noticeable.
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Halfpint
I realise the original post here is quite old - worth pointing out that software like Ableton and Traktor seriously distorts music when you do manual transposing. The quality of sound if you're using a WAV goes from pristine to like 128kb/s MP3. I think you should not transpose a song if it's the main element of your music at that point in time. On that note, it would be nice if MIK 'normalised' the keys of songs to the same BPM, so take into account disparity in BPM and create some adjusted key.
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djrpg
Hey Chad, Wondering...if I wanted to change the key of a track - using ableton - from 1A to 2A, or 7A to 6A, would I add/subtract 7.14 cents? If +/- 1 semitone = +/- 50 cents = +/- 7 keys, then can you divide 50/7 to get the cents required to change the key by 1? A long time ago my friend said that +/- 25 cents = up or down 1 key. If 1 semitone = +/- 7 keys, mathematically 25 cents would equal +/- about 3.5 keys then...right? (So I've been mixing things wrong sometimes :] ) -Ryan
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Chad (MIK Mod)
Hi Ryan, You kinda lost me there, but no, that's not right at all :) I think we can set you straight though: 1. A semitone is 100 cents, see Wikipedia for more info. 2. You don't even need to know that though, because Ableton has a transpose knob, you just turn it to the number of semitones you want to change the pitch. You're probably looking at the Detune setting, which is used for much finer adjustments. So, to answer your specific question of wanting to change a 1A to 2A, we look at the keyboard chart in my first post. 1A is A flat minor, and 2A is E flat minor. We should probably lower the key of the 1A track to 2A since it is less steps, 5. So you would set your transpose knob in Ableton to -5.
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djrpg
--Edited-- Chad, I understand now that 1 semitone = 100 cents. In ableton, when you click and hold the detune setting and move the mouse up or down, and the counter reaches exactly 50 cents (positive or negative), the transpose knob automatically moves to a setting of 1 or -1. I'm guessing that it does that because you're closer to a semitone adjustment than minor "detune" adjustments. It's confusing because you've only adjusted by a 1/2 semitone. If adjusting the transpose knob by 1 semitone is equivalent to changing a songs key by +/- 5* on the mixed in key wheel, can you divide 100 cents (1 semitone) by 5 to get the number of cents required for a key change of +/- 1? For example...can you change a track's key from 1A to 2A by moving the "detune" setting to 20 ct? Sorry for the confusing post earlier. -Ryan
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Chad (MIK Mod)
If adjusting the transpose knob by 1 semitone is equivalent to changing a songs key by +/- 5* Yes, that is correct. It's easier though to think of it as +/-7, because -5 is actually going up a semitone, and +5 is actually going down a semitone (on the Camelot Wheel). on the mixed in key wheel, can you divide 100 cents (1 semitone) by 5 to get the number of cents required for a key change of +/- 1? Sorry, the number 5 from above isn't the number of semitones that we are moving. Look at the piano keyboard image above, it shows how the Camelot Keys are placed on a piano. Notice how they aren't in numerical order? On a piano each key is one semitone. You need to count the number of keys (white and black) between any 2 keys that you want to transpose to. For example...can you change a track's key from 1A to 2A by moving the "detune" setting to 20 ct? 20 cents is less than a semitone, you're not changing the key at all (at least not perceptibly). Look at the piano again - 1A is A flat minor, 2A is E flat minor. You need to move the transpose knob by +7 or -5 semitones to get from 1A to 2A.
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Jay Velar
Chad, what if i wanted to move from 11A (F# Minor) To 2B (F# Major)? Would I have to transpose at all? If not, how many steps would I have to, half a semitone?
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Chad (MIK Mod)
That is impossible without changing individual notes in the track. Maybe you could do it with Melodyne, but it's not practical. Both scales start on F#, but F# minor has only 3 sharp notes, while F# major has 6.
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REvers
Hi Guys! Great reading, helps me out alot. I just have some questions regarding changing the Key and tempo. So: I have a track in 12A, and a Vocal sample in 9B. What i want to do is to pitch the vocal up 6 semitones in ableton? And that will lead to the vocals new key is D Flat Major, wich is most compatible with 12A (D Flat Minor)? Since there is also 6 semitones down to get to D Flat Major, this is also an option? And does it matter wich of these steps i take? Now, i also want to change the tempo of the vocals, and i was wondering how this will affect the vocal sample? Change the tempo first and get the new key, and after this pitch the vocal in ableton to 3B. Or can you pitch the vocal and then set some kind of "master tempo" to the track in ableton so that the tempo change wont affect the key? I am relatively new to MIK and ableton so sorry for alot of questions :) //REvers
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renatovms

Chad,

Please, clear me up.
I have a song (Ellie Goulding - Lights (Feenixpawl Bootleg)) in 12A, but the Acapella of that track is in 1A. How is it possible?
There is no audio quality difference between the original acapella and the acapella from that track.

Cheers.

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Chad (MIK Mod)

This has been discussed numerous times, I would encourage you to use the search box. Acapellas do not contain the same notes as a bassline or rhythm section, they often dance around the root note more. You can use the original key and the acapella key for harmonic mixing.

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renatovms

On Thursday, March 07, 2013 12:31 PM Chad P (Mixed In Key) wrote:

This has been discussed numerous times, I would encourage you to use the search box. Acapellas do not contain the same notes as a bassline or rhythm section, they often dance around the root note more. You can use the original key and the acapella key for harmonic mixing.

Ok. Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I was motivated by the topic and I forgot to use the search box.
Thanks, anyway.

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K-Sound

Chad, I have a question. Harmonic mixing and mixing by modulation and all these other techniques involving harmony, fit any style of music?

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Chad (MIK Mod)

It's all based on music theory so is applicable to any music.

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K-Sound

Chad, what would be the best way to follow in the wheel camelot? I must follow the logic? For example, if I start mixing G#m in sequentially using a Major Third, the correct would I use this technique to make a full turn at the wheel? Or I can mix Major Third semitones then increase, then decrease semitones, Minor Third, harmonic, would not run the risk of sounding confusing set? What would be the best way to apply these techniques? Thanks.

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Chad (MIK Mod)

Major and minor third mixing is considered an advanced technique because results will not be as often harmonic as they would be mixing between adjacent keys on the Camelot Wheel. The basics are covered in the tutorial in the app itself and on the How-to page. Since you're not really asking about transposing I would suggest starting a new thread if you have more questions.

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K-Sound

On Sunday, August 25, 2013 7:26 PM Chad P (Mixed In Key) wrote:

Major and minor third mixing is considered an advanced technique because results will not be as often harmonic as they would be mixing between adjacent keys on the Camelot Wheel. The basics are covered in the tutorial in the app itself and on the How-to page. Since you're not really asking about transposing I would suggest starting a new thread if you have more questions.

I'm in doubt when and how to use these techniques. For example, if I want one set of shades without shocks, one set is only cleaner I mix harmonically. If I want to increase the energy of my set just mix a semitone or two semitones above. If I want to decrease the energy of my set just mix a semitone or two semitones down. Correct? Now what is the purpose of the Major Third? And the Minor Third? Increase energy?

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Chad (MIK Mod)

On Monday, August 26, 2013 12:17 AM DJ Kelvis wrote:

I'm in doubt when and how to use these techniques. For example, if I want one set of shades without shocks, one set is only cleaner I mix harmonically. If I want to increase the energy of my set just mix a semitone or two semitones above. If I want to decrease the energy of my set just mix a semitone or two semitones down. Correct?

Mixing up a semitone doesn't necessarily increase the energy, we call it a modulation mix. It doesn't have the same uplifting feel that an energy boost mix does.

Now what is the purpose of the Major Third? And the Minor Third? Increase energy?

No, energy boost mixes are for increasing the energy. Mixing thirds are just another option for harmonic mixing to give the DJ more choices, to transfer quickly to a different key for example. The topic of this thread is transposing, which is changing the key of a song to a different key. This is a completely different topic so again, I would suggest starting a new thread or searching the forum for an already started discussion on the topic that you are asking about if you have more questions.

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isrockman

Hello Chad, I know this is an old thread, however for some reason I don't see the chart you mention which has the reference of the Camelot Wheel. It's covered by an advertisement. Would love if you could reply with the chart or please get rid of the ad.

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